| AbsolutGrndZer0 |
| 9 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay, so a lycanthrope has the following rules...
Ability Scores: +2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms. Lycanthropes have enhanced senses but are not fully in control of their emotions and animalistic urges. In addition to these adjustments to the base creature's stats, a lycanthrope's ability scores change when he assumes hybrid or animal form. In human form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are unchanged from the base creature's form. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are the same as the base creature's or the base animal's, whichever ability score is higher.
Here is the Tiger stats...
Str 23, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Then here is the errated Weretiger hybrid and animal stats...
Str 23, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8
So, looking at what I bolded there, and since the base lycanthrope rules have not changed, the stats for tigers have not changed... why has the stats for the weretiger changed? As the tiger has a Str of 23 and a Con of 17, that's the base stat... then as it says in the Bestiary you add 2 to them. Hence 25 and 19 were correct the first time...
Why the change? The only way I can see this change making sense is if the +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms. line was completely removed in a Bestiary errata, but to my knowledge it has not been removed.
| Majuba |
I haven't looked at these closely, but could it be that the +2 Str/Con is applied to the base creature's stats, and then compared to the base animal scores?
So Human, Str 13, Con 12. Goes to 15/14 in hybrid, then replaced by the Tiger's scores.
... Glancing at wererat, the human is higher regardless. Werewolf, it looks like the +2 was applied to the Wolf constitution score (much as it was the tiger's before errata).
| AbsolutGrndZer0 |
I haven't looked at these closely, but could it be that the +2 Str/Con is applied to the base creature's stats, and then compared to the base animal scores?
So Human, Str 13, Con 12. Goes to 15/14 in hybrid, then replaced by the Tiger's scores.
... Glancing at wererat, the human is higher regardless. Werewolf, it looks like the +2 was applied to the Wolf constitution score (much as it was the tiger's before errata).
Right, the werewolf wasn't changed... just the weretiger. But no, it says as I bolded +2 Str/+2 Con in all forms... so I don't see how the intent could be for that to be applied beforehand, since more than likely the animal stats are going to be higher already unless you are playing a min-maxed fighter...
Plus, I just double checked and the werewolf is thus...
Human Con 14
Base Wolf Con 15
Werewolf Hybrid/Wolf Con 17
So, the werewolf IS getting that extra +2, but the weretiger does not anymore... which makes it a complete replacement, negating the bonus the other lycanthropes get and that is right there in the RAW.
| AbsolutGrndZer0 |
The simplest explanation is that the Weretiger stat errata was an error.
Well yeah but do they make errors in errata, because as far as I can tell, it shouldn't have been changed. A hybrid and animal form has the same stats as the base creature or base animal, whichever is higher and then all forms get a +2 Str and Con. The werewolf follows this, the wereboar does, the werebear does, they all do... except the weretiger because it was changed... inexplicably. So, I am asking why was it changed when the change causes the weretiger to no longer follow the same creation rules as the rest?
Maybe you and I are right, the errata is an error, and if so then it should be changed back, or else I'd really like to know the justification for the weretiger becoming an exception to the rules every other werecreature follows.
So, could you guys please hit the FAQ button for me on the OP? Even if it doesn't end up in the FAQ, at least hopefully we can get a look from a developer to tell us why this change was made, or if it is in fact an errata in the errata!
| BillyGoat |
At a guess?
In anticipation of a future Bestiary errata affecting general lycanthrope rules to make them more in-line with polymorphing, generally (always use mods to base character stats). But, then they'd need to designate whether the "true base form" was the animal (animals that turn human) or the human (humans that turn animal).
Dunno, just as likely to be an error or a targeted "nerf bat" at the weretiger. Never ran one, so I don't know its power relative to CR.