Musket Axe, and feats.

[blackbloodtroll]

For the purposes of feats, and abilities, does the Musket Axe count as a Musket, and/or Battleaxe?

[Abyssian]

How, specifically, do you mean, BBT?

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, would things like Weapon Focus(Battleaxe), or Rapid Reload(Musket), effect the Musket Axe?

[Abyssian]

Sadly, I think not. I think that it would be perfectly reasonable for a GM to rule that Weapon Focus(Musket Axe) could not exist, but that the Musket Axe could be affected by WF(Musket) for ranged attacks or WF(Battleaxe) for melee.

An FAQ couldn't hurt, though.

[blackbloodtroll]

The "used as both a musket and a battleaxe" part is what I am focused upon.

Like the Scorpion Whip, being "used as a whip", or a Sawtooth Sabre can be "used as a Longsword".

[Abyssian]

Hmmm... I would allow it (reluctantly), since it shares language with two weapons that I think I know how they work. Let me re-read it and think it over. I think that you're right, though.

[blackbloodtroll]

Another example, is the Flambard, which can be "used as a Bastard Sword".

[Abyssian]

After review, I'm back to the "reasonable house-rule" stance. Scorpion Whips, Sawtooth Sabres, and even Aldori Dueling Swords all use "use as insert near-equivalent weapon here" language with regard to proficiency. I've FAQ'd your original post because I'd really rather the "reasonable house-rule" be just a rule.

[blackbloodtroll]

I would really like to sure on the RAW here though.

[Abyssian]

It's too ambiguous, I think, to judge accurately (and without variation). I really would like to see an FAQ addressing weapons that can be used "as [other weapons]."

[Torbyne]

so would weapon focus (axe musket) allow you to gain a bonus with axe muskets, battle axes and muskets? Something tells me if this is faq'd it will be against any spread between weapons just because its a three for one deal on feats.

[redward]

Firearms wrote:

Even though the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat grants you proficiency with all firearms, anytime you take a feat that modifies a single type of weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Rapid Reload), you must still pick one specific type of firearm (such as musket, axe musket, blunderbuss, pistol, or double pistol) for that feat to affect.

I look at it this way:

Since the rules specifically refer to the Axe Musket when selecting Feats such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Focus (Axe Musket) must exist. If it exists, it provides benefits to the weapon as a whole, not just one aspect of it (how would you pick which aspect if it affect if only one?).

I would also say this means Weapon Focus (Battleaxe) and Weapon Focus (Musket) don't apply to an Axe Musket, because they would be redundant with (and superseded by) Weapon Focus (Axe Musket).

As to which Fighter weapon group the Axe Musket belongs...I don't know. Personally I'd say Firearms and let it apply to both aspects, but I wouldn't say that's RAW.

[insaneogeddon]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

For the purposes of feats, and abilities, does the Musket Axe count as a Musket, and/or Battleaxe?

This confusion has no answer I could find in exhaustive searches. Really liked the idea if an inquisitor with the blackpowder inquisition and a musket axe. Power attack and deadly aim would have made a sweet switch hitter but do you need the axe proficiency as well? etc etc

All the dual gun weapons need clarification.

[blackbloodtroll]

Torbyne wrote:

so would weapon focus (axe musket) allow you to gain a bonus with axe muskets, battle axes and muskets? Something tells me if this is faq'd it will be against any spread between weapons just because its a three for one deal on feats.

You are looking at this from the completely opposite way it is being asked.

I have no idea how you twisted it this way.

[Phosphorus]

redward wrote:

As to which Fighter weapon group the Axe Musket belongs...I don't know. Personally I'd say Firearms and let it apply to both aspects, but I wouldn't say that's RAW.

It is in the Firearms Weapon Group. Ultimate Equipment states under weapon groups:

"Firearms

All one-handed, two-handed, and siege firearms"

This would include the Axe Musket.

There is no mention of it in axes, but the battleaxe is mentioned.

If we cut out the references to firearms in the rules redward quoted we get "anytime you take a feat that modifies a single type of weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Rapid Reload), you must still pick one specific type of ...[weapon]... for that feat to affect.

I agree with redward that this implies that any battleaxe feats do not apply when wielding the Axe Musket as a battleaxe. In fact, you could argue that you need EWP (firearms) to wield an Axe Musket as a battleaxe without a -4 penalty.

But I think it could probably do with a clarification.

$1,000,000 Question:

...Does Rapid Reload (Muskets) apply?...

[blackbloodtroll]

Indeed.

Does the Battleaxe end have the same damage, and critical?

There is only one listed damage, range, critical, and damage type.

[Phosphorus]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Indeed.

Does the Battleaxe end have the same damage, and critical?

There is only one listed damage, range, critical, and damage type.

The listed damage, range, critical and damage type is for when it is used as a musket.

I would apply common sense and rule when used as a Battleaxe it does the same damage, range, critical, and damage type as a normal Battleaxe, based on the text "It can be used as both a musket and a battleaxe."

It would be a case of 'ask your GM'.

(The Warhammer Musket suffers from the same problems as well.)

[blackbloodtroll]

Yes.

The Musket Axe, Musket Warhammer, Pistol Sword Cane, and Pistol Dagger, are all very cool thematically.

They are confusing mechanically though.

[Avatar-1]

Bumping this; I had this issue come up again last night.

Also worth noting is that a musket is a two handed firearm, but a battleaxe is a one handed martial weapon. Does the battleaxe end count as one-handed while it's being wielded?