The Rune Knight: A Rune Knight combines physical prowess, intelligence, inner grace, and the ability to carve ancient runes unto his/her weapons. [Needs more]
Proposed ideas:
Hit Dice: D10
BAB: (?)
NO SPELLCASTING
Fortitude: Bad
Reflex: Good
Will: Good
Proficiencies: All Simple and Martial melee weapons, the Rune Knight is not proficient with armor of any kind.
[New Mechanic]
Runes: The Rune Knight starts play w/ a number of runes equal to twice his/her Intellegence modifier.
This is the core mechanic of the Rune Knight, and effects the way the Rune Knights weapon works, by adding different runes the Rune Knight may add a number of additional benefits to their weapons, dependent onthe runes they learn
Eldritch Runes
[Force]
Divine Runes
[Holy]
[Unholy]
Elemental Runesl
[Frost]
[Fire]
[Acid]
[Lightning]
Special
Well, I would first tell you not to set the number of runes to twice the knight's intelligence modifier. It puts more weight on one stat than other rules in pathfinder do. Also: if you are going to give the rune knight a d10 hit die, that generally means it has full base attack bonus by convention.
Before we set the number of runes, let us talk about what these runes do:
1. Are they single use?
2. Are they persistent?
3. Are some persistent and others single use?
If these runes are single use then I am gonna tell you that you should give the knight something like int+1/2 level in runes or runes equal to int+4+2 for every level past first level.
If these runes are persistent and powerful then I would decouple the number you get from intelligence entirely and instead just use intelligence for things like saves or certain passive bonuses.
Well, I would first tell you not to set the number of runes to twice the knight's intelligence modifier. It puts more weight on one stat than other rules in pathfinder do. Also: if you are going to give the rune knight a d10 hit die, that generally means it has full base attack bonus by convention.
Before we set the number of runes, let us talk about what these runes do:
1. Are they single use?
2. Are they persistent?
3. Are some persistent and others single use?If these runes are single use then I am gonna tell you that you should give the knight something like int+1/2 level in runes or runes equal to int+4+2 for every level past first level.
If these runes are persistent and powerful then I would decouple the number you get from intelligence entirely and instead just use intelligence for things like saves or certain passive bonuses.
Comment Breakdown:
1. Thank you, and now I know.
2. I plan on keeping them as persistent effects.
3. Alright, I will keep that in mind. I plan on using passive abilities to allow for better survival chances.
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Let me pitch a version of this class with a d8 hit die with 3/4 BAB that uses single use runes. The damage is roughly scaled to the damage output of a rouge who is able to get sneak attack.
Rune Knight
Hit Die: 1d8
Bab:3/4
Fort: Bad
Ref: Good
Will: Good
Skills: 4+int
Weapons and armor proficiency: All martial and simple weapons; Light and medium armor; All shields except tower shields
Abilities:
Runes of Power: Starting at level 1, a Rune Knight's specialized magical training allows her to imbue a weapon, a piece of armor, or certain special items with magical might by pressing by touching the item and placing a magical rune onto it. She may create a number of these runes per day equal to her 4+her intelligence modifier+2 for each level thereafter. She may use these runes to activate a number of abilities. Unless otherwise noted, a rune knight applies a rune to her own self or equipment as a swift action or as a standard action when applying the rune to an unattended item, another creature, or an item held by another creature.
[Good bread-and-butter 1st level rune powers for the type of character I am talking about]
Burning Rune: Beginning at level 1, a rune knight may use her runes to imbue a weapon or piece of armor with elemental fire. If placed on a weapon, the rune sets the weapon ablaze causing the weapon to deal additional 1d6 points of additional fire damage for one round (until the beginning of the Rune Knight's next turn). This damage increases by 1d6 at 3rd level to 2d6 fire damage and increases by an additional 1d6 at 5th level and every two levels thereafter. If the rune is placed on a piece of armor, the wearer or wielder of that armor gains 5 points of damage resistance against fire for a number of rounds equal to 1d4+int modifier. At level 5, this elemental resistance increases to 10. At 10th level it increases to 20. And at 15th level it imparts immunity to fire damage. [note: later talents or feats allow the Rune Knight to expand this ability to other elements]
Rune of Nimble Legs: This rune is placed on the pants or legs of the target creature. For a number of rounds equal to 1d4 + the rune knight's intelligence modifier, that creature gains a +1 dodge bonus to armor class and reflex saves as well as an additional 5 feet of movement speed. At level 8, these bonuses increase to +2 and +10 feet respectively.
Rune of guidance: As a standard action, a rune knight may attempt to place a rune on a creature as a melee touch attack. On a successful hit, the rune "curses" the target creature. For a number of rounds equal to 1+ the rune knight's intelligence modifier, all attacks directed at the cursed enemy gain +1 to attack and damage rolls. These bonuses for individuals targeting the creature increase to +2 at level 6, +3 at level 12, and +4 at level 18.
Well, I would first tell you not to set the number of runes to twice the knight's intelligence modifier. It puts more weight on one stat than other rules in pathfinder do. Also: if you are going to give the rune knight a d10 hit die, that generally means it has full base attack bonus by convention.
Before we set the number of runes, let us talk about what these runes do:
1. Are they single use?
2. Are they persistent?
3. Are some persistent and others single use?If these runes are single use then I am gonna tell you that you should give the knight something like int+1/2 level in runes or runes equal to int+4+2 for every level past first level.
If these runes are persistent and powerful then I would decouple the number you get from intelligence entirely and instead just use intelligence for things like saves or certain passive bonuses.
Comment Breakdown:
1. Thank you, and now I know.
2. I plan on keeping them as persistent effects.
3. Alright, I will keep that in mind. I plan on using passive abilities to allow for better survival chances.
Ahhh. I see. I wrote that next response, not seeing this yet xD
How about giving the knight the ability to draw a certain number of runes on his own equipment or the equipment of allies. Then allow to have a smaller number of those runes "active" at any one time. That could lead to some interesting tactical decisions.
Well, I would first tell you not to set the number of runes to twice the knight's intelligence modifier. It puts more weight on one stat than other rules in pathfinder do. Also: if you are going to give the rune knight a d10 hit die, that generally means it has full base attack bonus by convention.
Before we set the number of runes, let us talk about what these runes do:
1. Are they single use?
2. Are they persistent?
3. Are some persistent and others single use?If these runes are single use then I am gonna tell you that you should give the knight something like int+1/2 level in runes or runes equal to int+4+2 for every level past first level.
If these runes are persistent and powerful then I would decouple the number you get from intelligence entirely and instead just use intelligence for things like saves or certain passive bonuses.
Comment Breakdown:
1. Thank you, and now I know.
2. I plan on keeping them as persistent effects.
3. Alright, I will keep that in mind. I plan on using passive abilities to allow for better survival chances.
Ahhh. I see. I wrote that next response, not seeing this yet xD
How about giving the knight the ability to draw a certain number of runes on his own equipment or the equipment of allies. Then allow to have a smaller number of those runes "active" at any one time. That could lead to some interesting tactical decisions.
I'll be honest, both ideal's(?) seem viable, the above idea could be turned into an Archtype for the Magus. However, for the way I sort of see the concept, I like the idea you just possed.
Hey thanks. Though I admit that the suggestion is not as well developed as it might be.
I disagree about my first idea being a potential magus archetype though. To be fully realized, it would require that a person craft a whole series of powers and rules on par with the complexity of the alchemist's bombs, a barbarian's rage, or the Bard's performance ability. So I would say a new class is called for.
1. That's both true and valid.
2. So, the question is how to make it awesome like the Barbarian, more viable than the Fighter and Monk, and less spongey than the Rouge?
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Well, how about we start the class off with like 3 runes known plus one additional rune known at level 3 and every two levels thereafter, up to 12 at level 19 [a feat will allow her to pick up an extra 2 runes known maybe]. At level 1,she may have a number of runes equal to 3+her int mod drawn on her own gear or her allies' gear but may only one can be active at a time. She may have one additional rune drawn at level 3, and every two levels thereafter to a maximum of 12+int modifier at level 19. The Rune knight may have a second rune active at level 2 and an additional active rune every 2 levels thereafter to a maximum of 11 at level 20.
How about these for runes available at level 1:
Damaging runes (each kind "purchased" separately).
These just add damage to attacks made with the weapon where the rune is inscribed. I think this should be just like +2 standard elemental damage (fire, cold, acid, electricity) and +1 for the weird elements (force, holy, and unholy; holy and unholy get the added benefits of). This stuff does not increase with level since it will more or less improve as characters get more attacks but I have an idea for rune stacking later starting at like level 7. When you "stack" two of these runes, the elemental damage steps up to 2d6, while the force and holy/unholy step up to 1d6.
Defensive runes (each kind "purchased" separately):
Basic elements grant elemental resistance 5(fire, cold, etc.) which improves to 10 at level 11. Stacking these before level 11, increase the resistance to 15, but stacking them after 10 imparts immunity. Holy, unholy, and eldritch grant DR 5/magic when unstacked which increases to DR 10/magic at level 8 and DR 15/magic at level 18. Stacked, the DRs change to 5/Good (for unholy), 5/Evil (for holy), and 5/Adamantiun (for eldritch) with the damage scaling up with level as well.
Speed runes:
Placed on pants or leg armor and increase movement speed by 5 feet. This improves by 5 feet at level 6 and every six levels thereafter. Stacking doubles it.
Level 5 runes:
[only one I have right now]
Rune of competence:
When placed on a weapon, it grants a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls. This may not be stacked until level 9. At that point, when the Rune knight places the stacked rune on one weapon that the rune knight holds (so just the rune knight) the insight bonus increases by +1 (to +3). At level 13, this stacked bonus increases to +2 (to +3 total) for the rune knight and it can be stacked on others for +1 (totaling to +2). At level 17, the bonus increases by +1 for the rune knight regardless of stacked (for a total of +2 unstacked and +4 stacked)
The stacked mechanic:
beginning at level 7, the rune knight may stack two of the same runes on one item. This takes up two runes for the purpose of the limit the rune knight may have drawn at once and also two runes for the limit of runes the rune knight may have active if she would like to use the stacked rune as two of her active runes. The rune knight may opt to only turn one rune "on" if she chooses but that results in only the lesser form of the power being active.
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Here is another power I really like, though (and I often put some kind of ability like this in a lot of my home brew warrior stuff; but it makes a lot sense here too):
Weapon Master's Tattoo:
Beginning at level 6, a Rune Knight may inscribe herself with a magical tattoo on one or both of her arms. This magic tattoo is essentially a peice of magical equipment that the Rune Knight may craft and apply to herself. For the cost of a weapon +1 weapon (2,000 gp) a rune knight may tattoo one of her arms so that any masterwork weapon wielded in that hand is treated as a +1 magic weapon. The Rune Knight may spend additional money to increase the power of this tattoo further even adding effects like flaming, keen, or defending provided that the Rune Knight can pay the gold in terms of raw materials and the total effective enhancement bonus of the "weapon" not exceed 1/2 the Runic Knight's class level. In addition to weapon properties that increase the effective enhancement bonus of the weapon in terms of cost, the Runic Knight may add any number of additional abilities that add to the flat cost of a weapon (such as dueling) provided she can pay the cost in materials. And though she may add any enchantment she likes to the tattoo, only those effects applicable to the held weapon will actually carry over to the held weapon (so for instance: the Rune Knight still may not add keen to a held mace nor add the Greater Designating enchantment to a held melee weapon, but may still add any other applicable effects embodied in the tattoo). Each arm of the Runic Knight may be enchanted separately and weapons held in two hands may apply the effects imparted by either arm but not the effects of both. A common strategy is for a Runic Knight to enchant one hand to use melee items with and another hand for the use of ranged weapons such as bows.
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Here is another power I really like, though (and I often put some kind of ability like this in a lot of my home brew warrior stuff; but it makes a lot sense here too):
Weapon Master's Tattoo:
Beginning at level 6, a Rune Knight may inscribe herself with a magical tattoo on one or both of her arms. This magic tattoo is essentially a peice of magical equipment that the Rune Knight may craft and apply to herself. For the cost of a weapon +1 weapon (2,000 gp) a rune knight may tattoo one of her arms so that any masterwork weapon wielded in that hand is treated as a +1 magic weapon. The Rune Knight may spend additional money to increase the power of this tattoo further even adding effects like flaming, keen, or defending provided that the Rune Knight can pay the gold in terms of raw materials and the total effective enhancement bonus of the "weapon" not exceed 1/2 the Runic Knight's class level. In addition to weapon properties that increase the effective enhancement bonus of the weapon in terms of cost, the Runic Knight may add any number of additional abilities that add to the flat cost of a weapon (such as dueling) provided she can pay the cost in materials. And though she may add any enchantment she likes to the tattoo, only those effects applicable to the held weapon will actually carry over to the held weapon (so for instance: the Rune Knight still may not add keen to a held mace nor add the Greater Designating enchantment to a held melee weapon, but may still add any other applicable effects embodied in the tattoo). Each arm of the Runic Knight may be enchanted separately and weapons held in two hands may apply the effects imparted by either arm but not the effects of both. A common strategy is for a Runic Knight to enchant one hand to use melee items with and another hand for the use of ranged weapons such as bows.
You may improve the tattoos by paying the cost difference between the new cost of the enchantment and the old enchantment. However though you may be able to improve existing effects into their better version (such as lesser designating to greater designating or flaming to flaming burst) the Knight may not "trade" effects. To do that, she must first spend 1 week removing part of the tattoo (as in removing the "flaming" enchantment) and then adding the new enchantment as normal.
Creating the tattoo or improving the tattoo takes 1 week of work for every 10k of the cost of the tattoo or the cost difference of improving the tattoo (rounded down but with a minimum of one week of work).
I like all the ideas posed, and as for the Weapon Masters Tattoo, I feel like your reading my mind. I have a few things I'd like to say and propose;
1. I would like to, if possible, find a way to include the Rune of Guidance ability that you posed earlier.
2. Could the Weapon Masters Tattoo be expanded to eventually include armor?
3. Are these Ex, Su, or something else?
4. Going back to two, what if we got rid of armor proficiency, and instead added a passive ability (or two) that adds a bonus to AC? I was hoping to shy away from armor reliance and encumbrance.
Rune ideas:
Vertical
When placed on a weapon you may, as a standard action, make a single attack at her highest BAB, against all targets in a strait line out to 30ft, this increase to 60ft at (?) level. This stacks to 60/120ft respectively.
Horizontal
It essentially is vertical but with a cone effect.
HP Drain
Gain half damage as health back, this can not cause her to exceed her normal max health. At (?) level becomes full damage but is temporary.
Meteor Impact
As a Full-round action deal damage to all targets in a 30ft radius. At (?) becomes 60ft. Stacks to 60/120ft.
Possible Feats:
Gain 2 additional Runes
When using Runes that deals damage you may select a number of targerts equal to your intelligence mod + 1/2 levels that it doesnt affect.
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Well, the only real challenge with adding rune of guidance or your attack runes is that the version of rune knight that I just proposed does not have any expendable resources.
There is a solution to that, though: the rule could be that using meteor impact or the like actually shuts off one of the active runes for a period of time (let's say 2d6 rounds). This adds a cost to these special attack maneuvers as it reduces the total strength in buffs that the rune knight is allowed to grant. This will only take up one active mark though, even when the runes are stacked (unless otherwise noted).
Certain special runes could also be limited to uses per day. I feel like rune of guidance might be powerful enough to enforce such a limit in addition to the usual cost of temporarily losing access to a rune.
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Alrigt, taking that in mind, I really like the idea of that. Makes it less think with my fist and more with my head.
I also had an idea going back to the Vertical and Horizontal runes: Reduce range to 10ft. per every three levels of Rune Knight. Caps at 60ft at 18th level. No longer stackable, and w/ a feat they could be used together but at half range, and then becomes normal range at (?) or w/ an additional feat.
We could also make it available to only blunt weapons, in addition to other restrictions.
Side note: MC restrictions and penalties?
Multiclass restrictions and penalties? I don't really see why that is necessary.
I think the vertical and horizontal rules that you just mentioned work fine so long as they are also limited to uses per day. Hell, for sufficiently low uses per day, I say still let it stack to double range.
I like limiting this to blunt weapons if it is somehow dwarf themed.
I wasn't to sure about it but, I think you're right, there's no need.
Well if we give it low uses per day, we could always make a feat to give extra uses.
Well, logically and thematically speaking, it makes sense.
I've always associated runes with Dwarves, Eldritch knowledge with Elves, and Psionic power with Humans. Speaking of which, Favored Class Bonus?
Favored class bonuses?
I dunno. Maybe dwarfs get an extra rune known for every 4 levels and humans can get an extra use of one of their limited-use runes every 3 levels? Those are the two that pop up off the top of my head.
Now that we have banged out some of the basics, you wanna mock up a class chart in excel to show people what the class will look like in general?
That might draw some other minds in here for critique.
Both sound good.
That's a really good point, I should be able to get to it by next week, at the moment, my computer is down, so I've been posting with le mobile device. Unless you want to do it?
Nawwwww. I got a job I fear. I just post on here when I am between assignments.
Ah, well sometime next week a table will be up, and hopefully there will be more posting and ideas.
I had a bit similar idea presented here: runethane.
I prefer the mechanics mechanics, though?
I like a lot of what you have there, but I will also note that your ash rune seems way too good. Runes don't go away in your model, right?
Minor runes either work constantly or, if they require triggering like ash rune, they work once and are destroyed (it's mentioned in the sentence just above the first spoiler containing description of minor runes). I agree that re-roll at will would be overpowered.
I apologize for my lack of posting (Or the Table) but my internet has been down, and my computer has been freaking out. I'll do my best to get something up.
It is all good, man.
an odd thought, but perhaps going another level of extreme, permanently carving the runes into your own body, for a less armed/armored individual.
When I think of runes, I always think of Tibia's (MMORPG) magic system. In Tibia, casting instantaneously is not preferred since many spells have high mana costs and mana regenerates very slowly without expensive potions. So, a mage has to prepare runes, which are basically like multi-charged scrolls, ahead of time.
With the rune knight, you can follow something similar and perhaps model the alchemist's extracts. The rune knight could perhaps spend a rune slot in order to embue his weapon and armor.
I like a lot of what you have down. Could we reuse some of it's rune features?
I could see it, but it would probably have to be an arctype or something.
I've finally got the net back, but my computer is down for the foreseeable future.
A note to all (and those listed above); I have decided to post this class on the Giant in the Playground Homebrew forms, hoping to keep the idea of this class alive and get it to eventual completion as it looks like interest has generally died down.