Card counting?

[Andy Why]

Ok, so this only impacts a few of the characters, but it's something I wanted to discuss as I don't think that their's an official ruling on it. Myself and another friend are using Seelah is separate campaigns, though he treats her 'look at the top card of your deck for a d6 boost' ability differently than I do. Basically if he recharges a blessing or spell, he puts the card back into his desk upside down so that he knows what it'll be when he comes across it again. I see why he does it, but it feels to me like it goes against the spirit of the game.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Brainwave]

He can do it if he wants but there's nothing in the rules that says cards put back into decks go upside down so it's not playing by the letter of the rules.

If you are looking for opinions, that seems kind of excessive to me, as we're not talking about one card here - he could end up with his entire remaining deck face up if he gets rid of everything but spells and blessings. However, when I play my 6 character solo game I leave cards face-up that I've looked at with Harsk's ability to make it easier on myself to remember - and that's also not technically legal.

But what we think doesn't really matter - I suspect you already know it's not by the rules - if it bothers you then that might mean it's not how you really want to be playing and you might politely mention to your friend that it's not correct. On the other hand, if you're fine with it then go for it.

[Mike Selinker]

Sure hope he never has to shuffle his deck, such as after being healed.

[csouth154]

Actually, the rule book clearly defines recharging as putting the card face-down on the bottom of the deck. Well...the updated version does, anyway. I think what he's doing is definitely a twisting of the rules...but it's the opinion of those he plays with that matters.

[Hawkmoon269]

csouth154 wrote:

Actually, the rule book clearly defines recharging as putting the card face-down on the bottom of the deck. Well...the updated version does, anyway. I think what he's doing is definitely a twisting of the rules...but it's the opinion of those he plays with that matters.

I don't think he is putting them face up, just rotating them so the image on the back of the card is in the opposite direction. Since the image isn't symmetrical on a horizontal axis, he can use this trick to know the rotated cards are blessings, and so will be safer to activate Seelah's power.

Seems contrary to the spirit of the game and her power, if not to the letter of the game.

If it bothers you, talk to him about it. Or if they are your cards and you want to go the passive aggressive route, sleeve the cards with a solid color backing. That will end his sneaky ways. But talking with him is probably a better choice.

[csouth154]

Hawkmoon269 wrote:

csouth154 wrote:

Actually, the rule book clearly defines recharging as putting the card face-down on the bottom of the deck. Well...the updated version does, anyway. I think what he's doing is definitely a twisting of the rules...but it's the opinion of those he plays with that matters.

I don't think he is putting them face up, just rotating them so the image on the back of the card is in the opposite direction. Since the image isn't symmetrical on a horizontal axis, he can use this trick to know the rotated cards are blessings, and so will be safer to activate Seelah's power. .

Oh, I see. Still definite cheese, imho.

[oneplus999]

So, we used to do this for a lot of cards where it's just a way to store information we know. Eg if we peek at the bottom card of a location deck, we'd put the card back faceup, cause we know it's there, and then if the location deck gets shuffled, we'd flip it back first.

Except then I realized that the game is easy enough as it is; its more fun and more challenging to force ourselves to try to remember the various cards we've revealed, so now I've made my group put cards back facedown (even though I was the one who started the face-up business), and sure enough, we'll forget what they are half the time, and so it's a part of the game we can try to get better at.

I took the same attitude towards Seelah. He's really just storing information he could have written down with pencil and paper, so it's not the worst violation, but it's missing out on part of the fun and challenge of the character, imo, to not have to keep track of that stuff in your head.

Unless he's actually doing something with the card-orientation to know where his blessing are, even after shuffling, then that's just outright cheating.

[Hawkmoon269]

If he doesn't re-rotate them when shuffling, then he will retain the information.

I thought of another option for you: When he looks away or gets up from the table, rotate the bottom half of his deck. Do that a couple of times and he will loose confidence in his trick. But again, an honest conversation is probably the healthiest choice for your friendship. And hopefully your friendship is more important than this game, even as awesome as this game is.

[Bidmaron]

If he re-rotates the card before shuffling I don't see an issue. It is information that he should know. If he had perfect memory, he'd know it was the xth card down in the deck and be able to keep track of it. It's no different than writing a note to help you remember. The rules don't tell you that you can't write a note to remember something you have knowledge of either, so why should this bother you? Now, if it stays rotated during a shuffle -- that's a problem. Then again, if it's a house rule.... It's all about having fun.

This does not, IMO, violate the rules. It is information that you can have (and, as I said, if he had taken a note rather than rotated the card, no one would have a problem with it [or at least they shouldn't]).

[Andy Why]

Yeah, I don't think it's a huge deal, it just didn't feel quite right to me. If this were a competitive game, it'd be a hard 'no', but co-operative is a different story even though I know it shouldn't be. I'll talk to him about it though it think. We already have a pretty solid team and do well in these adventures, so we don't need the edge that it gives us.

Thanks for the thoughts folks!

[Nathaniel Gousset]

Got a friend with perfect eye sight (read yours cards fine print from the other side of the table) and good memory could do the trick without turning the cards.

It is very easy by the way to count them, that is only about 10 cards after all, all you have to do is remember : 10 unknown, 7 unknown 2 blessings, 6 unknown 3 blessings... And so on. Very easy trick and doable for less advantage for other players when they want to know when a recharged card will be back.