So i'm making a new system too gain ability's. you don't have any classes. but you buy ability from points you gain every level. I just started with it today and want to know what you all think about it.
Right now you can only use level one ability, but if it works in level one I can probably work in higher levels as well and it's better to find the problems early.
Choose class skills, this cannot be changed. Your stat mod *2 class skills from every stat. But you can only choose skills of the same stat as where you got the points or use two points to select another skill.
Proficiency
I haven't made a whey to get Proficiency yet, If any one have any ides tell me
Base attributes:
Hp: 1d6/ level
Skill points: 2/level
Saves: poor
Bab: ½ level
Points: 20/level. 30 points at lv 1. (Might need to be higher)
Max saves: Good save
Max Bab: Level
Max caster level: Level
Max hp: 6
Spellcasting: Choose spell list and spontaneous or prepared
level Spell level
1 1
3 2
5 3
7 4
9 5
11 6
13 7
15 8
17 9
Point cost
+1 Skill = 1
+1 Hp = 1
+ 1 Saves = 3
+1 Bab= 5
+1 Feat = 5
+1 Caster level = 5
+1 Spell level= 10
+1 Tier 0 ability= 3
+1 Tier 1 ability= 5
+1 Tier 2 ability=7
+1 Tier 3 ability=10
+1 Tier 4 ability=15
+1 Class skill = 2
If a class has a alignment restriction all the abilities from that class have the same restriction.
Tier 0 abilities:
Nature Sense (Druid), Wild Empathy (Druid)
Tier 1 abilities:
Detect Evil (Pala), AC Bonus (monk) Sneak attack (rogue),
Tier 2 abilities:
Channel energy (Cle), Stunning fist (Monk), Track(Ranger), Throw anything (Alch), Gunsmith (Guns), Monster Lore (Inq), Trapfinding (rogue)
Tier 3 abilities:
Fast movement (Bar), Rage (Bar), Bardic knowledge (Bard), Bardic performance (bard), Domains (Cle), Unarmed strike (Monk), Smite evil (Pala), Favored enemy (Ranger), Bloodline power (Sorcerer), Arcane School (wizard), Bomb (Alch), Mutagen (Alch), Spell combat (magus), Arcane pool (magus), Summon Monster (Sum), Order (cava) Tactician (cava), Judgment (Inq), Stern Gaze (Inq), Revelation (Ora), oracle’s curse (Ora), Hex (wit) withch’s familiar (wit), Arcane bond (wizard),
Tear 4 ability
Deeds (Guns), Eidolon (Sum)
Flurry of blows does not exist. You can spend 5 points to make 2-weapon fighting work that way.
If you select deeds you gain a grit pool.
You get life link when you get the eidolon.
When selecting Order you get challenge,
When you choose a revelation you also gain a mystery.
Hexes, discoveries, rage powers and so on cost 10 points for the first and then 5 points for upgrades.
When you select witch’s familiar you also gain patron spells.
Abilities:
Wild Empathy (3p)
This ability increases with level and you don’t need to upgrade it.
AC Bonus (5p)
This ability increases with level and you don’t need to upgrade it.
Chanel energy: (7p)
Each time you select this ability you gain an addition 1d6 dmg to a maximum of ½ levels.
Stunning Fist (7p and 5p)
You gain the 1 level ability of the monk and you can upgrade the ability at a minimum level of 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20 for a point cost of 5p
Unarmed strike (10p)
This ability increases with your level and you don’t need to upgrade it.
Track (7p)
This ability increases with your level and you don’t need to upgrade it.
Sneak attack (5p)
Each time you select this ability you gain an additional 1d6 dmg to a maximum of ½ levels.
Rage (10p)
And you can upgrade this ability to greater rage at 11th level or higher and mighty rage at 20th level. This increases costs 10 points per upgrade.
Bardic knowledge (10p)
This ability increases with level and you don’t need to upgrade it.
Bardic preformence (10p)
When you first gain the ability you can gain every ability up to level 5 and can max count as a bard of 5 level. You still need the required levels. You can also increase the cap by spending 10 more points. For every 10 points you spend the max level increases by 5 to a maximum of 20 levels. And you gain all the performances from those levels.
Domains (10p)
You gain the first ability of your domain and you count as a cleric of a maximum level of 10. If you get it a second time you gain the second ability and you count as a cleric of a maximum level 20. If you want to gain more domains after this you can spend 7p to gain the first ability and then 7p more to gain the second power of that domain.
Smite evil (10p and 5p)
You count as a maximum of 4 level paladin for smite. You can upgrade this ability by spending 5 points. The cap increases by 3 levels. Then you increase the level to 19 you instead increases it to 20 the level.
Favored enemy (10p and 7p)
You gain one favored enemy when you select this. Then you select this a second time
You gain another and the bonus on the previous ones increases by 2. Upgrading it costs 7p
Trapfinding (7p)
This ability increases with level and you don’t need to upgrade it.
Bloodline power (10p and 5p)
You gain a sorcerer blood line. But you can only use the first bloodline power. If you upgrade the ability you gain an additional bloodline power that’s one step more powerfull then the one you have. This upgrade costs 5p
Bomb (10p)
You gain bombs with damage 1d6+int mod. You can increase the damage with 1d6 buy spending 3 points. The max damage is ½ level*1d6
Mutagen (10p)
This ability increases with level and you don’t need to upgrade it.
Arcane pool (10p)
You gain the arcane pool and can use it to enhance your weapons as if you have a maximum of 4 magus levels. You can increase this cap by spending 10p more and use it to enhance your weapons as if you have a maximum of 20 magus levels.
Summon Monster (10p)
You can cast summon monster I. If you upgrade it you can use one level higher spell. It costs 5p to upgrade. You are still limited to ½ level as the maximum level of the spell you can use.
Order (10p and 5p)
You gain an order and you count as a maximum of 7 cavalier levels for this ability. You can upgrade this ability buy spending 5p to increase the limit to 14. If you upgrade it again the limit becomes 20.
Judgment (10p)
You gain the judgment ability as if you have a maximum of 3 levels of inquisitor. You can upgrade the ability by spending 5p. You gain a +4 bonus on the maximum inquisitor level you can count as.
Stern Gaze (10p)
This ability increases with level and you don’t need to upgrade it.
Revelation (10p)
When you select this the first time it costs 10p the times after that it only costs 5p
Oracle’s curse (10p and 5p)
First time you select it you gain the first ability. If you select it again you only need to pay 5p and you gain one more ability.
Hex (10p and 5p)
You gain a hex and it uses your caster level. If you select it more than once it only costs 5p.
Deeds (15p and 10p)
You gain deeds as if you are a level 1 gunslinger. If you select this again you gain the 3rd level deeds and if you select it one more time you get them from level 7, and so on. These increases only costs 10p
Eidolon (15P and 3p)
You gain a eidolon that’s level one. To increase its level you need to spend 3p/lv. The level can’t be higher than your level.
So what do you think. Can a system like this work?
Oh looky, must be the next season. A new point-buy class thread. ;)
These turn up every 3-6 months doen here in Homebrew. You might want to do a search for Rynjin's thread on a similar subject - and as I do on *every* one of these threads I come across, I'll link to THIS Class Construction Engine. Its a little outdated, but it is probably helpful for what you are seeking to employ/create.
and as I do on *every* one of these threads I come across, I'll link to THIS Class Construction Engine. Its a little outdated, but it is probably helpful for what you are seeking to employ/create.
Yeah. I've played around with point based class construction. There was an article in Dragon for that for BECMI decades ago. I also have played HERO for over 25 years, so the concept just works for me.
That guide is a great place to start, to see ways to put it together. I've used it, modified it, and such - but do note that the monk in that document is one of the most expensive classes... so you know it needs work. :D
Heck we did a short campaign where everyone built characters from the advanced race guide, and classes from that. Overpowered, sure. But it was great for a different kind of feel.
Okay found it:
Here is Rynjin's Freeform Class Selection thread;
Here is a link to a (possibly more finalised) googledoc he used for a PbP recruitment:
Honestly (no offence intended to the OP), I don't see why so frequently people try to turn D&D or PF into a Point-buy system. It's not good at it, and there are plenty of systems who do it better (In fact I'd argue that a system designed around point buy which doesn't do it better than a system not designed for point buy is hardly worth looking at as a system). But, while the racial building rules were decent with the a point buy method, that's mostly due to their simplicity. There's not much to racial features, and there's already enough imbalance in the base races that the point buy rules don't need to be perfectly balanced.
I feel, honestly, it's more worthwhile to try to do D&D in a point-buy system, than to try to do Point-buy in D&D. I've Played HERO system off and on for years, and even though my current groups don't like it, they probably wouldn't like almost any point buy system, since most of them aren't interested with fiddling around with the more minor mechanics of their characters. Sure they're fine with feats and skills and such, but that's because they've already got the class structure to hang everything off of.
As for doing it the other way around, aka doing D&D in a point-buy system, it's not too difficult. Most have mechanics for doing extra damage in certain circumstances, so you can pull off favored enemy, Smite Evil, sneak attack, ect with the system, and I can speak to HERO system's ability to replicate Vancian magic (though, honestly, if you're not using D&D or PF, why would you ever want to do that?), and such. But the thing that is even better about it is that not only can you do pretty much all you can do in pathfinder, but you can do even more. Want to play an archer who can do debuffs? You can do that. Want a Martial buffer/leader that the Cavalier and DSP Warlord failed to do well? You can do that. Want a monk that doesn't suck? You can definitely do that.
So, yeah, I really just don't see the point. PF and D&D are really good at doing PF & D&D, but not all that great at doing much else. Meanwhile there are systems better capable for doing those other things, and Pathfinder isn't going to be that.
I look at point build classes as a way to create a character that the rules don't cover yet - or as a way to get a different kind of multiclass.
When I ran with that idea, the players built the class - 1st to 20th, and then just used that class. The point buy wasn't every level, just at the start. So once play started, it played as any other Pathfinder game, with classes, levels feats etc.
I also find it useful as a guideline when I make my own class. I use that as another way to "eyeball" power level of a new class. It's not perfect but it gives a range of effects. Sometimes I do that, sometimes not.
thanks for the links Oceanshieldwolf. they will help with pricing ability i think.
I should say that I balance things around feats. So Proficiency costs 5 points because you can get them from feats.
Let's see if you can build a sorcerer with this system and how meny points you get over.
So let's start.
In total i will have 30+(20*19)=410 points.
Sorcerers have bad bab so that's no cost and they have 1 good save. so that's a total of 6*3=18. then they have 20 caster levels so that's 20*5=100 and they have 9 levels of spells so that's 9*10=90. to get the blood line powers you need to spend 10+(4*5)=30 and then there is bonus feats and such. 4*5=20
In total
6*3=18
20*5=100
9*10=90
10+(4*5)=30
4*5=20
18+100+90+30+20=258
so basely you got a lot of points left. 410-258=152 points left.
If the cost of unlocking spell levels is spell level *5 it the price would be.
In total
6*3=18
20*5=100
1*5+2*5+3*5+4*5+5*5+6*5+7*5+8*5+9*5=225
10+(4*5)=30
4*5=20
18+100+225+30+20=393
that gives you 17 points left. for that you can increase the bab with 3 and give your self 2 hit points.
So that's a lot better. I need to make prices for more ability's to see how different classes will cost.
Random non-sequitur: I think a "Shadowrun: Dark Ages" product would be awesome :)
Okay found it:
Here is Rynjin's Freeform Class Selection thread;
Here is a link to a (possibly more finalised) googledoc he used for a PbP recruitment:
Sweet I don't even have to plug myself! I mean uh err.
Anywho, the idea works...ish, but the problem is you have to do a lot of "cutting the jigsaw pieces to make them fit" for it.
Okay found it:
Here is Rynjin's Freeform Class Selection thread;
Here is a link to a (possibly more finalised) googledoc he used for a PbP recruitment:
Sweet I don't even have to plug myself! I mean uh err.
Anywho, the idea works...ish, but the problem is you have to do a lot of "cutting the jigsaw pieces to make them fit" for it.
Also, sometimes you have to deal with a Barbarian's excessive awesomeness.
Should I make different costs for different spell list?
Or maybe make the caster level cost of divine magic different from arcane magic?
for example make the cost for divine magic be 4p and arcane 5 or something like that.