So here is a concept for a duo that I might convince someone to go in with me or to use as villains.
Race: Ratfolk
Class: 1 Rogue and 1 Ninja
20-point buy (PC)
STR 05 (-3) [-2 racial] {+04 Points}
Dex 18 (+3) [+2 racial] {-10 Points}
Con 14 (+2) [-- racial] {-05 Points}
Int 13 (+1) [+2 racial] {-01 Points}
Wis 11 (+0) [-- racial] {-01 Points}
Cha 15 (+2) [-- racial] {-07 Points}
15-point-buy (NPC)
STR 05 (-3) [-2 racial] {+04 Points}
Dex 18 (+3) [+2 racial] {-10 Points}
Con 13 (+2) [-- racial] {-03 Points}
Int 13 (+1) [+2 racial] {-01 Points}
Wis 10 (+0) [-- racial] {-00 Points}
Cha 14 (+2) [-- racial] {-05 Points}
The build relies on feinting the target so that it is denied its dex bonus to AC. The range of a whip is 15 feet, and with Improved Whip Mastery the range becomes 20. With combat reflexes this means that he could make 4 AOOs before an enemy with a melee weapon before they get to attack. Withdraw actions do not escape.
The build focuses on tripping and disarming targets while also apply sneak attack damage if both the ratfolk are in the same square.
RT = Rogue Talent. FT = Feat.
(BAB)(Character level)(Feat or Rogue Talent level) <Feat name>
(00)(01st)(FT01) Weapon Finesse
(01)(02nd)(RT01) Combat Reflexes
(02)(03rd)(FT02) Two-Weapon Fighting
(03)(04th)(RT02) Combat Expertise
(03)(05th)(FT03) Weapon Focus: Whip
(04)(06th)(RT03) Whip Mastery
(05)(07th)(FT04) Improved Whip Mastery
(06)(08th)(RT04) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
(06)(09th)(FT05) Two-Weapon Feint
(07)(10th)(RT05) Improved Two-Weapon Feint
(08)(11th)(FT06) Extra Talent: Crippling Strike
(09)(12th)(RT06) Opportunist
(09)(13th)(FT07) Extra Talent: Powerful Sneak
(10)(14th)(RT07) Deadly Sneak
(11)(15th)(FT08) Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
(12)(16th)(RT08) Distracting Attack
(12)(17th)(FT09)
(13)(18th)(RT09)
(14)(19th)(FT10)
(15)(20th)(RT10)
That is what I have time to post. What are your ideas?
In effect the Rogue and the Ninja stick in roughly the same square and use their ridiculous reach of 15 to 20-ft with their whips to defeat enemies that are trying to approach them.
Since they are both Ratfolk and have the Swarming quality they can share the same space and any enemy they both attack is considered flanked, E.G. +2 to hit and sneak attackable.
They will get at least three sneak attacks per charge each if someone charges them in a straight line. Two if the charge is from a diagonal.
Your thoughts on this build?
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The build relies on feinting the target so that it is denied its dex bonus to AC. The range of a whip is 15 feet, and with Improved Whip Mastery the range becomes 20. With combat reflexes this means that he could make 4 AOOs before an enemy with a melee weapon before they get to attack. Withdraw actions do not escape.
I think you are misunderstanding Improved Whip Mastery.
"While wielding a whip, you threaten the area of your natural reach plus 5 feet."
Your natural reach is 5 feet. Add another 5 feet to get 10. It does nothing to increase the reach of the whip itself. What it does allow you to do is Threaten squares up to 10 feet. Without the feat you don't threaten at all.
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This is a great idea, a friend and I were considering doing similar with an Alchemist Vivisectionist and a Ninja but without the whips. The whip idea is very compelling however should they gain the whip mastery chain.
However the way I read improved Whip mastery is that you only threaten to 10ft not 20ft. From Improved Whip Mastery: While wielding a whip, you threaten the area of your natural reach plus 5 feet. If there is a Faq or errata on this then I would be interested to see it or if the consensus of the people here is different.
Regards
Sic
EDIT: yea what he said ... Damn Ninja's ...
Well, this makes whips far less useful, but I can still work with this.
RT = Rogue Talent. FT = Feat.
(BAB)(Character level)(Feat or Rogue Talent level) <Feat name>
(00)(01st)(FT01) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip
(01)(02nd)(RT01) Weapon Finesse
(02)(03rd)(FT02) Two-Weapon Fighting
(03)(04th)(RT02) Combat Expertise
(03)(05th)(FT03) Two-Weapon Feint
(04)(06th)(RT03) Weapon Focus: Whip
(05)(07th)(FT04) Whip Mastery
(06)(08th)(RT04) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
(06)(09th)(FT05) Improved Two-Weapon Feint
(07)(10th)(RT05) Improved Whip Mastery
(08)(11th)(FT06) Combat Reflexes
(09)(12th)(RT06) Extra Talent: Opportunist
(09)(13th)(FT07) Crippling Strike
(10)(14th)(RT07) Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
(11)(15th)(FT08) Powerful Sneak
(12)(16th)(RT08) Deadly Sneak
(12)(17th)(FT09) Distracting Attack
(13)(18th)(RT09) Lunge
(14)(19th)(FT10)
(15)(20th)(RT10)
I might have considered Lunge, but it ends as soon as one's turn ends instead of until the end of the round.
Hence, it is worthless for increasing threatened area.
Still this duo will tear targets apart.
With the possible addition of Lunge it might be more dangerous.
The damage comes mostly from Sneak Attack and the weapon being Agile.
So their average damage at level 3 would be
24 damage (8d6 sneak attack damage) The damage from the whip would be negligible, possibly 1 non-lethal damage per hit until the whip is agile, and after that it is sure to do positive damage.
This should be enough damage for the duo to be relevant since the average HP of each HD is, without con:
d06 13(3d06)
d08 17(3d08)
d10 21(3d10)
d12 25(3d12)
d6 and d8 will likely be incapped instantly.
D10 and D12 will take two rounds.
The standard party, how many turns, at level 3, it would take to incapacitate said character.
Wizard (d6)--1 round.
Rogue (d8)--1 round.
Cleric (d8)--1 round.
Fighter (d10)--2 rounds.
So, by my calculation the duo should have no chance in defeating a party. It would be a CR 4 encounter (2x CR 2 monsters). A CR 6 encounter (4x CR 2 monsters) would have a large chance of winning against the PCs if the rogues and ninja are allowed to attack.
The first major investment of the ratfolk is to make their whips agile, after (or before) that is a ring of invisibility.