Bardic Versatile Performance and Skill Bonuses

[shaxberd]

Do skill bonuses for skill checks that you are replacing with your Bardic Versatile Performance also apply to your Performance checks?

For example, an Azata bard would have a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy checks. At 2nd-level bard, he chooses to apply Versatile Performance to his Performance (strings), which allows him to make Performance (strings) checks in place of Bluff and Diplomacy on Bluff and Diplomacy checks, respectively. Would that +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy checks be added to his Performance (strings) when using it to make a Diplomacy check?

[MurphysParadox]

Eh... maybe? It is hotly discussed and it kind of doesn't make any sense at all either way. How can playing strings make you diplomatic anyway? Maybe the other guy hates stringed instruments? I don't know; magic I guess.

The wording suggests that you do get the bonus, that in fact you get both bonuses to perform and bonuses to diplomacy in this case. It seems fishy to me; at the least, it should be one way or the other.

[Live Bait]

Yes?

[The Crusader]

I would say that it's a DM's call. But, if you decide to apply bonuses, you also have to apply penalties. So, your armor check would apply if you're using Perform (dance) for acrobatic or fly checks.

My personal opinion is you swap one skill for the other. Bonuses and penalties that apply to Diplomacy (or any other skill) don't apply to Perform.

[Nefreet]

I've been operating under the belief that Versatile Performance is a replacement effect, and that bonuses to your actual Diplomacy skill would not transfer to your Perform skill if you used it instead.

Luckily the Azata has a +2 to Perform checks ;-)

[Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan]

Unfortunately, it is nowhere clearly spelled out.

At one extreme, you just use your Perform ranks in place of the other skill ranks.

At the other extreme, you use your Perform check in place of the full check.

That makes Skill Focus (Perform) very powerful. It can also make bonuses to the individual skills useless. [it makes no sense to me for your MW guitar to add +2 to Diplomacy, for example]

It would be nice if this had ever been FAQ'd. JJ has discussed it a couple times, but still no FAQ.

[The Crusader]

Some of them make more sense than others.

Perform (oratory) for Diplomacy and Sense Motive works pretty well. You are a master of speaking and therefore also judging the speech of others.

Perform (dance) for Acrobatics and Fly works out pretty well, too. You have learned to move and manipulate your body in balanced and complicated ways.

Perform (act) for Bluff and Disguise works really well.

Some take a little more imagination, though... and may just not work in every circumstance. Perform (string) is one of these.

[Nefreet]

Your MWK Musical Instrument does not help you with Versatile Performance.

[shaxberd]

My example is a bad example since the Azata gets a +2 racial bonus to both Diplomacy and Performance so two racial bonuses to the same check wouldn't stack anyway. But at least I now know that nothing definitive has been decided on this topic yet. Thanks.

[Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan]

The Crusader wrote:

Some of them make more sense than others.

Some take a little more imagination, though... and may just not work in every circumstance. Perform (string) is one of these.

I'm sorry, but the rules say otherwise. They work each time, every time. You're not actually performing, you're doing Diplomacy normally, just using your Perform ranks for the check.

But very basic questions arise, does a half Orc get his intimidate bonus?

[LazarX]

shaxberd wrote:

Do skill bonuses for skill checks that you are replacing with your Bardic Versatile Performance also apply to your Performance checks?

For example, an Azata bard would have a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy checks. At 2nd-level bard, he chooses to apply Versatile Performance to his Performance (strings), which allows him to make Performance (strings) checks in place of Bluff and Diplomacy on Bluff and Diplomacy checks, respectively. Would that +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy checks be added to his Performance (strings) when using it to make a Diplomacy check?

There's no question about the answer.. Note highlighted text below.

Versatile Performance (Ex)

At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills.

It says "in place of" not "in addition to". There's no ambiguity there.

[Nefreet]

And, it's "bonus", not "ranks", which a lot of ppl get mixed up.