| seebs |
Readied actions resolve before their triggers.
I ready an action: I will cast wall of stone blocking off a side corridor if anyone enters the main corridor. I can't see down the side corridor, though.
So someone enters the main corridor, which means my readied action goes off, but because it's readied it goes off before their move. So they are not yet in the main corridor when the wall goes up. Which means I never saw them. So why did I cast the spell?
Or say I ready an action to put up a wall of stone if the archers shoot at us. So my wall goes up. Do the archers have to actually shoot the wall now, or are they allowed to pick a different action? If they pick a different action, why did I cast the spell?
I'm not sure whether I am simply badly misunderstanding the rules here, or whether this is one of the cases where the game rules can't quite model a consistent world.
| Xaratherus |
The game rules can't model a consistent world. There are numerous kludges that come up because of the mechanical systems that are in place.
For instance, a combat round generally models a 6-second period of time. During that period, every combatant in the initiative order takes some combination of actions (standard and move or full-round plus a possible swift and some number of free actions). All of those actions occur simultaneously throughout the 6-second duration of the round - yet (except in specific circumstances) we determine the results of those actions sequentially based on the initiative order, meaning that each character's actions are resolved within their own sort of 'bubble' within the round.
[edit]
Sorry, I didn't really answer your question. In the scenario you describe, I generally GM it that you wait until you see their fingers releasing their bowstrings before you pull up the Wall of Stone, so they're effectively committed to their action. The readying text says that if the triggering character(s) can continue their action after yours goes off, they'll do so; in your scenario I see their action as "shoot my bow", and they can still do that with your wall in the way (although they can't hit the target they wanted).
If Pathfinder 2.0 ever happens I'd love to see them move to an 'action point'-style system. It can get chaotic but I think it models combat more dynamically.
| Rynjin |
Look at it this way.
You see the guy.
He's not quite in the corridor yet.
Why?
Each square represents a distinct 5 ft. space. You can see his arm, leg, head, etc. come around the corner long before he has fully committed to being in the corridor. And even if he IS in the corridor, there's potentially 4 ft. of space between the entrance of the corridor and the next square over.
| Mysterious Stranger |
Readying an action simply means you are prepared to do one specific action if you notice the triggering action. Since you have prepared you can interrupt the person performing the action. You still have to be able to perform the action when the trigger occurs. A good GM will look at your intentions to determine when the event occurs. If in doubt the GM should ask for a clarification. If you are casting an area of effect spell when someone enters the corridor with the intention of damaging them I would wait until they are actually in the area before you spell goes off. If the on the other hand you are casting a wall of stone to block the entrance you spell would go off before they enter the area.
Human communication will triumph rules at this point.
| seebs |
Oh, hey. So, a puzzle for you about actions continuing. Some spells require a target. You can't cast them without a target. If a readied response to your casting removes the target:
* Do you get to pick a different target?
* If there's no targets you want, do you just lose the spell?
* Can you cancel the cast without losing the spell?
I'd probably say "yes, no, and yes". But I'm not sure whether the rules support me on this. So far as I can tell you're simply Not Allowed to cast targeted spells without a target, so what happens if you do is unclear. (... I still don't actually know what happens if you try to magic missile a figment. It's not a valid target.)
| Kazaan |
The key is in the difference between declaring an action and resolving an action. When we say that Readied Actions or AoOs happen "before" the triggering action, that's just so the layman can understand that the Readied Action/AoO occurs before the result of the action that triggers it. But, from a more in-depth mechanical perspective, what is actually happening is that it is the declaration of the action which triggers the Readied Action/AoO which then resolves, and then, if the trigger can still continue, it does. So it isn't the completion of casting the spell that triggers the readied action but the beginning that triggers. The readied action occurs in between the beginning and the end.
When you declare your action, you are establishing the parameters; what you're doing, what you're targeting, etc. You're basically spending your resources; both tangible as well as abstract. After this, a response action can occur. If this results in you not being able to complete your action, you've still spent your resources. Thus, you don't get your action economy or other abstract resources back.
Cinematically speaking, you cast your spell against a target by mentally and physically processing a "formula" for the magic. Who the magic is intended to affect is part of that formula if the magic is targeted. But if it "creates" an effect such as Fireball or the various Ray spells, it has no specific target; you aim your hand at whoever and fire away. Thus, I'd say a spell that affects one target directly such as Magic Missile or Hold Person requires them to stay a valid target between declaration and resolution of the spell. An AoE targets an area so those who move out of that area may be spared. Rays are aimed by hand so you can aim it at whoever is convenient.