how ablative barrier interacts with DR


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ablative barrier reads...

Invisible layers of solid force surround and protect the target, granting that target a +2 armor bonus to AC. Additionally, the first 5 points of lethal damage the target takes from each attack are converted into nonlethal damage. Against attacks that already deal nonlethal damage, the target gains DR 5/—. Once this spell has converted 5 points of damage to nonlethal damage per caster level (maximum 50 points), the spell is discharged.

If someone has DR, such as a barbarian, does the DR apply to both the usual damage, and the non-lethal, since the regular damage is coming from the original source, and the nonlethal is coming from the spell. That's the reasoning and the basis of the question. Dont dismiss it just because you think it's broken, it's pretty powerful I admit. I just want to know RAW.

Thanks!


Seems to me it would. Also heals heal both lethal and non-lethal damage. But it's only 50 points, so that doesn't help for long.


I have the same question, but with an added complication: Invulnerable Rager. The Invulnerable Rager archtype for the Barbarian provides DR equal to half your class level and nonlethal DR equal to your class level. How does this interact with ablative armor?

Furthermore, what happens if an attack deals both lethal and nonlethal damage? Would ablative armor provide or increase the invulnerable rager's nonlethal DR against the nonlethal damage and then convert 5 points of the lethal to nonlethal? Would you combine the 5 converted points with the base nonlethal damage done before applying nonlethal DR or would they be applied separately?


To the OP: Ablative Barrier is not a new source of damage, it's simply converting the type of damage that you have received (first 5 points of lethal damage the target takes from each attack).

As for Invulnerable Rager, their no special effect. The lethal damage that you take, after your DR, is converted to non-lethal. DR has already been adjudicated by that point. Otherwise, the spell itself would annul all the non-lethal damage that it converts, since it provides DR 5/lethal.

Also, the spell DR and Invulnerable Rager non-lethal DR would not stack.


Lets see...DR would apply before the Lethal damage obviously, but the nonlethal part is interesting. I would say DR would likely apply to the nonlethal because the spell is not ACTUALLY dealing damage, it is merely converting the form of damage that the attack dealt to the player so that the attack is treated as if it were dealing 5 points of nonlethal and the rest of whatever damage it may deal is calculated normally.

And as for the Invulnerable Rager question, I believe that DR does not stack so it would not increase DR. But then again, I am not well versed on DR and there could be a rule somewhere that says if you gain DR from multiple sources that are the same, then they DO stack. It seems like I have heard or read that somewhere but I am not even remotely sure on that.


Invulnerability (Ex)

At 2nd level, the invulnerable rager gains DR/— equal to half her barbarian level. This damage reduction is doubled against nonlethal damage.

Now, I am not sure on this but with the way the Invulnerable Ragers DR is worded,how it interacts with Ablative Barrier is strange.

I'm thinking that since the first 5 points of damage of an attack are nonlethal, you double your DR and then subtract the amount from your normal DR and whatever amount of DR you have after converting those 5 points is dealt with normally.This is because both the attack and the DR are both one source.

I think it is only really useful in the 1-4 range when the Invulnerable Ragers DR is less than the DR ablative barrier grants, and thus, your DR would only apply to the lethal damage.


Good point Majuba, I missed that completely.


Majuba wrote:
Otherwise, the spell itself would annul all the non-lethal damage that it converts, since it provides DR 5/lethal.

The ability states that you only get the DR 5/nonlethal if the attack deals nonlethal damage normally, so it wouldn't provide DR 5 against the converted damage either way. I'm not sure how much of a basis for your interpretation that is though.

Majuba wrote:
Also, the spell DR and Invulnerable Rager non-lethal DR would not stack.

I agree on this point. DR generally does not stack.

Why are you differentiating between when the damage is applied for whether or not DR works? At one point in time you're not taking any nonlethal damage. Then, at another point in time after the ablative armor kicks in, you are taking 5 points on nonlethal damage. Why would it skip DR only in this situation? Normally the DR would apply whenever you take the associated type of damage.


As written:

Invisible layers of solid force surround and protect the target, granting that target a +2 armor bonus to AC.
Components V, S, M (a piece of metal cut from a shield)

This being an "Armor Bonus" would NOT normally stack with material armor or Mage Armor. But since 99%+ of all characters use one or the other... WHAT would be the point of having it in the description if it did NOT add to AC for Armor Bonus items?

Is there any official ruling where this "force shield" surrounding the player DOES ADD to his AC?


It adds to your AC if you don't have any armor bonuses that are +2 or higher. Which some characters might not, at least occasionally. Otherwise, yeah, the +2 is pretty worthless.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / how ablative barrier interacts with DR All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions