Which feat to cut? There's not enough room!

[Makarion]

I'm tentatively planning out the near future for my non-archetype bard. She's a light crossbow user (I know, it's hardly optimal), and so far it looks like this:

Human feat: Point Blank Shot
Anti-hero feat: Precise Shot
Level 1: Arcane Strike
Level 3: Lingering Performance (likely)

So, a list of feats I'm interested in are:

Rapid Reload
Rapid Shot
Multishot (level 9 minimum)
Deadly Aim
Vital Strike (level 9 minimum)
Clustered Shots (level 11 minimum)
Discordant Voice (lvl 11 minimum)

I'm getting the impression that there just won't be enough room for all that I want, so I need to prioritize. I'm thinking that getting rid of Rapid Shot and Multishot is a bad idea, although it's very tempting, since I could conceivably dump Rapid Reload as well in that case. Then again, at level 7 starting bardic performance is a move action, so freeing up that move action is probably a good idea.

I suspect that spellcasting will remain a fairly major part of my activities, so I wouldn't be shooting all day long. Even so, I don't feel spell focus is too important, given that we have a pure caster dealing with enchantments in the party already. Grease and Glitterdust are awesome, but not sure it's worth spending a feat for two spells!

Could you guys and girls help me with the deliberations? I'd love to hear some opinions.

[LazarX]

You have to understand. You're a Bard, you're not a Ranger, nor are you a Fighter with free feats or tons of combat feats to burn. You're not going to be William Tell with a crossbow.

I would jettison the rapid shot, multishot, and clustered shot feats and and be content with the remainder. Use the rest of your feat slots for your bardic side.

[Imbicatus]

Manyshot won't work with crossbows, so that is an easy drop. IF you are dropping that, you may as well drop rapid shot/rapid reload.

[bfobar]

My advice was stupid. nevermind. I wish to echo the posts above with not going down the rapid/multi/clustered road.

Although maybe sneaking craft arms and armor in there and making bane, holy, flaming, etc arrows 2-3 at a time might give you a further damage boost if you can't buy them.

[Black Powder Chocobo]

First question: Is using the light crossbow mandatory? You'd cut out the need for Rapid Reload by using the shortbow, which is comparable overall (and if you happen to have some strength bonus, you can get a composite bow for extra damage, always nice).

If you want to still use light crossbow (for the more damage and better crit range), then do note you cannot take Manyshot (believe this is what you meant by Multishot); it says specifically bows and arrows, so it won't work for your crossbow (of course, GM house ruling it otherwise).

In either case, you made up one feat!

So bow build:
1: PBS, PS, Arcane Strike
3: Rapid Shot
5: Lingering Performance
7: Deadly Aim
9: Manyshot
11: Clustered Shots
13: Vital Strike or Discordant Voice, both have their pros and cons.

Xbow build:
1: PBS, PS, Arcane Strike
3: Rapid Reload
5: Rapid Shot
7: Lingering Performance
9: Clustered Shot
11: Vital Strike
13: Discordant Voice

[Melavis Clay]

You can be fairly effective with just PBS, PS, rapid shot, and deadly aim. You will need rapid reload at some point to make use of rapid shot but I think a repeating crossbow can make up for it until you have an extra feat. Since you are a bard you will fill some rounds casting or singing. the need to reload your crossbow may not come up in the middle of combat that often.

[Makarion]

Melavis Clay wrote:

You can be fairly effective with just PBS, PS, rapid shot, and deadly aim. You will need rapid reload at some point to make use of rapid shot but I think a repeating crossbow can make up for it until you have an extra feat. Since you are a bard you will fill some rounds casting or singing. the need to reload your crossbow may not come up in the middle of combat that often.

Repeating Crossbows are exotic weapons, though, so that would cost a feat for proficiency - and at that point I might as well take rapid reload to begin with!

[Makarion]

Black Powder Chocobo wrote:

First question: Is using the light crossbow mandatory? You'd cut out the need for Rapid Reload by using the shortbow, which is comparable overall (and if you happen to have some strength bonus, you can get a composite bow for extra damage, always nice).

If you want to still use light crossbow (for the more damage and better crit range), then do note you cannot take Manyshot (believe this is what you meant by Multishot); it says specifically bows and arrows, so it won't work for your crossbow (of course, GM house ruling it otherwise).

In either case, you made up one feat!

So bow build:
1: PBS, PS, Arcane Strike
3: Rapid Shot
5: Lingering Performance
7: Deadly Aim
9: Manyshot
11: Clustered Shots
13: Vital Strike or Discordant Voice, both have their pros and cons.

Xbow build:
1: PBS, PS, Arcane Strike
3: Rapid Reload
5: Rapid Shot
7: Lingering Performance
9: Clustered Shot
11: Vital Strike
13: Discordant Voice

Thank you! It looks pretty good, but even with bardic performance bonuses I'm worried that Rapid shot will eat badly into my hit chance. It's probably worth it, though.

How would you say that Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim compare? The latter has the advantage that I could maybe ditch Rapid Reload. Given that bards generate a lot of static bonuses to hit, I can probably weather the penalty though.

[DrDeth]

Makarion wrote:

I'm tentatively planning out the near future for my non-archetype bard. She's a light crossbow user (I know, it's hardly optimal), and so far it looks like this:

Human feat: Point Blank Shot
Anti-hero feat: Precise Shot
Level 1: Arcane Strike
Level 3: Lingering Performance (likely)

Discordant Voice (lvl 11 minimum)

I suspect that spellcasting will remain a fairly major part of my activities, so I wouldn't be shooting all day long. Even so, I don't feel spell focus is too important, given that we have a pure caster dealing with enchantments in the party already. Grease and Glitterdust are awesome, but not sure it's worth spending a feat for two spells!

Unless you're playing some odd archetype a bard is a buffer by means of bardic first, a caster 2nd, and a fighter 3rd.

So, sure, get PB & Precise, since for the first few levels, plinking will be useful. Even after that, there are spells where it could help.

How about Great Fort? Toughness? Dodge?
Spellsong? Combat casting? Discordant Voice?

[Makarion]

DrDeth wrote:

Makarion wrote:

I'm tentatively planning out the near future for my non-archetype bard. She's a light crossbow user (I know, it's hardly optimal), and so far it looks like this:

Human feat: Point Blank Shot
Anti-hero feat: Precise Shot
Level 1: Arcane Strike
Level 3: Lingering Performance (likely)

Discordant Voice (lvl 11 minimum)

I suspect that spellcasting will remain a fairly major part of my activities, so I wouldn't be shooting all day long. Even so, I don't feel spell focus is too important, given that we have a pure caster dealing with enchantments in the party already. Grease and Glitterdust are awesome, but not sure it's worth spending a feat for two spells!

Unless you're playing some odd archetype a bard is a buffer by means of bardic first, a caster 2nd, and a fighter 3rd.

So, sure, get PB & Precise, since for the first few levels, plinking will be useful. Even after that, there are spells where it could help.

How about Great Fort? Toughness? Dodge?
Spellsong? Combat casting? Discordant Voice?

Hmmm, you have a very good point. I really should get Great Fortitude before level 13 or so, given that it's a weak save to begin with - and failing them tends to be really bad.

I did look at Spellsong, but I couldn't see enough spells that are duration "concentration" to make it worth a feat, to be honest. Performances aren't spells, even if they imitate them, so that basically leaves a handful of illusions, unless I'm missing something?

[DrDeth]

Makarion wrote:

Hmmm, you have a very good point. I really should get Great Fortitude before level 13 or so, given that it's a weak save to begin with - and failing them tends to be really bad.

I did look at Spellsong, but I couldn't see enough spells that are duration "concentration" to make it worth a feat, to be honest. Performances aren't spells, even if they imitate them, so that basically leaves a handful of illusions, unless I'm missing something?

It also conceals spellcasting. So you could cast Charm Person or Sleep on guards, etc without anything being the wiser.

[Makarion]

DrDeth wrote:

Makarion wrote:

Hmmm, you have a very good point. I really should get Great Fortitude before level 13 or so, given that it's a weak save to begin with - and failing them tends to be really bad.

I did look at Spellsong, but I couldn't see enough spells that are duration "concentration" to make it worth a feat, to be honest. Performances aren't spells, even if they imitate them, so that basically leaves a handful of illusions, unless I'm missing something?

It also conceals spellcasting. So you could cast Charm Person or Sleep on guards, etc without anything being the wiser.

That makes sense. We have another spellcaster, though, who is a bit of an enchantment specialist. Which is rather nice, since it frees up a lot of my limited number of bard spells known for utility. Even as a human, I rather doubt I'll ever run out of good options for those!