Help w / Spell AoE dmg Cleric!

[Kysune]

Hello all,

After playing a few PFS games and seeing how effective some Evil Clerics have been against the party I'm deciding to make my 3rd character a Cleric that focuses on offensive dmg. Below is some of the things I'm looking to wrap together into the build.

Spells like Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, Mass Inflict Light Woulds, Spiritual Weapon, and other Save or Suck spells.

I'm considering a high Wisdom and Charisma build, with a low/medium str/con/dex/int within reason. I'd like to use AoE dmg spells, Commanding/Enchantment spells that rely on Charisma checks and also making use of Command Undead/Animate Dead (as a SECONDARY, I know in PFS there will be times this won't work with a Paladin in the party so I don't want this to be my main focus).

I'm considering either Aasimar or Halfling for the following reasons.

Aasimar:

Deathless Spirit + (Incorruptible OR Heavenborn)
Favored bonus: +1/2 dmg with positive channel vs undead or alignment channel vs evil outsiders
Aasimar has some good resists vs evil,negative energy, death, and level drain stuff. Incorruptable helps vs those evil Cleric dmg spells. Or Heavenborn gives +1cl to Good or Light spells. Seems like a good choice to oppose Devils and Demons.

Halfling:

Halfling Luck, Fleet of Foot, Symbol of Luck, Escaping Ward spell (Seems SUPER powerful to avoid full attacks at lvl 6+)
Halfling gives a total of +2 to saves with Halfling Luck and Symbol of Luck. Fleet of Foot gets me back to 30ft speed.

Build Thoughts:

I know my feat selection is Limited but I'm hoping to fit in the following: Selective Channel, Command Undead, Versatile Channel (maybe?), Quick Channel.

I'm not sure if I want to channel positive or negative energy but I know Seasons 4 & 5 is going to contain plenty of Demons and etc. Since I'm wanting to do dmg I'm looking at Inflict Wounds spells but the spells like Holy Smite and Order's Wrath are going to be most helpful in PFS vs enemies.

How can I build a Wis & Charisma based Caster Cleric and focus on dishing out dmg? I don't mind single target spells or AoE burst spells, Quick channeling negative energy seems like it would be useful to throw in extra dmg also?

I'm also considering going the Crusader archetype, despite losing 1 spell a level, for the 2 free feats to pickup Heavy Armor Proficiency and Tower Shield Proficiency to bolster my defenses. Is there any items like Pearls of Power for Clerics to offset this? Is Crusader a bad idea?

I could really use some help from people with more experience. Any advice, suggestions, build help would be MUCH Appreciated!

[Kysune]

*chirp* Any advice from fellow Clerics?

[Kysune]

ANYONE?......

[Akinra]

My thoughts::

1) SoS Builds depend on the highest possible stat to increase the DC as much as possible
2) Halflings do not have a wisdom modifier, so that will hurt the concept.
3) Oracles have the Cleric Casting list, and run off Charisma
4) Halfling have high Charisma

Secondary thoughts:

1) Aasimar get +wis +cha, so probably better for cleric build focused on cha and wis than a halfling would be.

[Magda Luckbender]

One very blasty Cleric option is the Theologian archetype with e.g. the Fire domain. You get Burning Hands and Fireball same as a Wizard, and can cast them in full armor. The Theologian archetype allows you to memorize multiple domain spells, so you can load up. This approach would use stats WIS --> CON --> CHA --> DEX--> STR--> INT-->

When you said, "A Cleric who does offensive damage", were you only talking about spell damage? Clerics make effective martial combatants. With a lot of build resources a martial cleric can almost match a dedicated martial combatant. Even with minimal build investment a Cleric can be a competent martial combatant. For example, just a 14 STR, Power Attack, a Two Handed Weapon, and some buffs can produce pretty decent martial damage numbers for a Cleric. Do not lightly discard basic martial competence, especially when it is so cheap.

[Kysune]

I agree with you Akinra on Halflings not having that +2wis score.

Reasoning for Halfling:

My only thoughts on picking Halfling are the spell Escaping Ward racial spell which seems grossly overpowered to avoid Full attacks at lvl 6+ as long as I keep my AC medium/high. A Dire Tiger tries to pounce or full attack me, it misses its first attack, I immediate action step back 10ft, it can no longer use its remaining attacks and the spell remains for 6+ rounds before having to be cast again.

Halflings provide a +2save vs fort, reflex, will. My reason for the Charisma is I plan on using the feat Command Undead and spells like Enthrall or other Charisma check spells gained through Domains.

The favored bonus is also a LOT more flexible than the Aasimar's. Aasimar seems to pidgeon hole you into using positive energy which I'm not sure if I can cast Inflict Wound Spells then? Or is that just spontaneously casting that it stops me from doing if I pick positive energy?

My thoughts on Aasimar:

Aasimar's Deathless Spirit seems Very useful as it covers a lot of stuff. Also, I'm not sure how Heaveborn works with Light spells on whether Light would overpower Darkness? (Light+1cl with Heavenborn) Heavenborn would boost a good amount of spells for a Cleric...but if I'm playing with a Good alignment I'm prone to any evil Clerics with Unholy Blight, Chaos Hammer, etc. That's where the alternative of Incorruptable comes in as it reduces dmg in half and season 4-5 should contain a good deal of demons and the like that will try to destroy me.

Last Saturday's Game...ouch:

Last Saturday I watched a halfling positive channel focused Cleric get 2shot by the BBEG evil Cleric. After he hit us with Chaos Hammer and Unholy Blightand the Halfling Cleric died...died, we charged him and we got hit each turn with double negative channeling for 3 rounds and we had 4 people die at our table with 2 that luckily escaped with their life. We were a group of 6 between levels 3-5 and one level 7, playing up on a lvl3-7 scenario season 4. It was rough.

After seeing this, I'm wanting to AVOID this kind of evilness (hence thinking about Aasimar with Deathless Spirit and Incorruptable) and I'm wanting to build a Cleric that's somewhat like this evil Cleric we fought.

I'm wanting to avoid summoning, avoid melee combat, avoid archery and focus on being a Caster, Bad Touch, Necromancy Cleric.. I say Necromancy because I'm wanting to grab Selective Channel and Quick Channel to blast Demons/Devils or other Evil things and since Channeling and Necromancy both use Charisma I figure I might as well grab the feat Command Undead.

[Kysune]

I know a melee Cleric is doable but I'm wanting to do an AoE destroyer. Having the ability to double channel in a turn for dmg. Having spells like Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, stuff that really messes up undead, evil aligned, and demons/devils, and Mass Inflict Minor Wounds. I'm choosing high Charisma since I'd like to animate dead or enslave mindless undead we fight against and use them instead of Summon Monster spells which have a shorter duration.

I like the idea of Fire domain with those two spells, concerned as Fire is usually the first resist anything gets and I'd assume devils/demons are well reistant to fire also.

EDIT: I'm also considering the Crusader archetype since I could get Heavy Armor Proficiency at lvl 1 and Tower Shield Proficiency at lvl 6. Which would give me a good deal more of AC to get in there and use touch spells or just keep myself alive against melee charging at me.

[Kysune]

Below are some stats a put together for Aasimar and for Halfling.

Aasimar stats:

Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 19
Cha: 17

At lvl4 adding +1wis (20)
At lvl8 adding +1cha (18)

Halfling stats:

Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 18
Cha: 16

At lvl4 adding +1wis (19)
At lvl8 adding +1wis (20)

Looking at the stats above it seems way smarter to pick Aasimar. Only reason I was hesitating was that Demons/Devils usually have multiple attacks and Escaping Ward spell for Halflings seemed like it would help me reposition and avoid a lot of possible damage.

I guess I'll need to pick Negative channeling as Command Undead requires that.

[Kysune]

Well I've narrowed it down with 2 different deities (domain sets) for my blaster/necro Cleric.

Race,Stats,Racials:

Race: Aasimar
Racials: Deathless Spirit, Heavenborn

Str: 7
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 19
Cha: 17

PFS, 20 point buy

Level Progression:

1) Cleric 1: Bab +0, Selective Channel (lvl 1)
2) Cleric 2: Bab +1,
3) Cleric 3: Bab +2, Command Undead (lvl 3)
4) Cleric 4: Bab +3, +1 Wis
5) Cleric 5: Bab +3, Quick Channel (lvl 5) --5ranks Knowledge Religion
6) Cleric 6: Bab +4,
7) Cleric 7: Bab +5, FREE Feat (lvl 7)
8) Cleric 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Cha
9) Cleric 9: Bab +6/+1, Improved Channel (lvl 9)
10) Cleric 10: Bab +7/+2,
11) Cleric 11: Bab +8/+3, FREE Feat(lvl 11)
12) Cleric 12: Bab +9/+4, +1 Str

Two gods/godesses I'm trying to decide between.:

Brigh - Caves & Ashe domain.
grants pit traps, offensive walls, ranged attacks, and everyone's favorite "fireball"

** Ashe special is great vs invis and to blind people, Caves not so great since I already have 60ft darkvision as Aasimar but free Spider Climb at least.

Shyka - Undead & Madness domain.
grants Ghoul Touch, Touch of Idiocy, Rage, Confusion, Enervation, and Save or Suck spells like Phantasmal Killer and Slay Living.

**I must admit that Madness specials are great, Undead's pretty much sucks since channeling negative energy you have to decide to heal undead or harm living and not both at same time.

Items / Gear:

Malleable Symbol (10k gold) - I can't believe people don't mention this more often. Can shape your negative channels to avoid friendlies? YES PLEASE! Still taking Selective Channel to un-target allies while trying to get the max amount of enemies.

Muleback Cords (1k gold) - buying asap to offset my low strength score.

Pearls of power (1k each) - get extra lvl1 spells like Burning Hands?

Traits:

Not sure which traits would best serve me. Here's some I'm debating on.

1) Birthmark - Don't have to worry about losing my Divine Focuses to sunders etc.
2) Sacred Conduit +1 to DC for channels
3) Dangerously Curious I have high Charisma so may as well for wands?
4) Focused Mind +2 to concentration checks
5) Magical Lineage: Burning Hands Grab Intensified Spell - Allows Burning Hands to scale up to 10th lvl for 10d4 as a lvl1 spell.
6) Force for Good +1cl to good-aligned spells. Combined with Heavenborn racial for +2cl good-aligned spells. Overpowered or blah?

Silver Crusade Faction Question:

Would Silver Crusade faction kick me out for raising and commanding undead to destroy evil (using Evil's own power against themselves.) I'm considering Silver Crusade for the "Force for Good" to combine with Aasimar's racial "Heavenborn" for a +2cl to good-aligned spells, +1cl to light spells.

Goal of my character:

I wish to dare and use Save or Suck spells along with Area of Effect spells like Holy Smite and Order's Wrath against Evil and Chaotic enemies, Negative Channels + Quick Channels while shaping channel area with Malleable Symbol, and possibly burning hands+fireball OR ghoul touch+enervation.

I plan on destroying lots of undead (after using them as my own bodyguards) and devils/demons with this character and not be the traditional "band-aid". I will have some useful healing+buff spells but focus on destroying my enemies with the powers of Good & Evil and showing them the true power of [insert deity here].

I'm focusing Wis primary with Charisma secondary. So I'll be enslaving undead (if Paladins aren't around) or using my Divine might to slay the living or the dead with the power of the gods. Please give advice on my Stats, which Traits to take, or which Deity to take. Any suggestions would be super helpful!

[Melavis Clay]

I made a negative channeling cleric a while back and they can be pretty good. My build was with maxed Cha and improved channel at lv 3. Channeling is by far my best offensive ability. The only thing thats kinda hard is your headband slot is both cha buff and phylactery of negative channeling. This make it kinda tough. Travel domain is very nice since you can ignore difficult terrain and later dimentional hop to exaclty where you need to be for max effectivness.

[Kysune]

Any suggestions/advice on my last post? Could use some help with my build. Thanks!

[Magda Luckbender]

Since you are investing so heavily in Channeling, you might consider Versatile Channeling. Then you could also use your channeling goodness to help your allies, not just to harm your foes. With this approach you want the Phylactery.

One approach in line with your plan is to be LN and worship the arch-devil Dispater and use Variant Channeling (Rulership). The huge AoE Daze-or-damage combination is highly effective. This would allow your channels to still be relevant against foes with umpteen billion HP.

[Kysune]

Thanks Magda, I think I'm going to go with the +Charisma headband though. It should increase my channels per day, channel dc's, and Command Undead dc.

Two of the issues I have with Dispater is since he's LE, from my understanding, I won't be able to cast any "good" descriptor spells since he won't grant me those spells as they are in opposition to him. That means my optional "Force of Good" trait and "Heavenborn" racial are out of the question for the +2cl to "good" descriptor spells as they'd be worthless.

I do like the "Variant Channeling" option, but I'm trying to stick with a Neutral or Lawful Neutral god/goddess so I can bring the pain to demons and undead. My choice of Brigh was for the nuke spells in Ash domain and pit traps in the Cave domain, which should help against constructs and other things immune to fire and alignment dmg.

The things I'm not sure about yet are:
1) Which traits I should take. I made a list above with some example.
2) Which god/goddess to take that allows me to be versatile. A Neutral god/goddess will allow me to cast both Good & Evil spells and allow me to pickup Versatile Channel later if I'm Neutral also.
3) Are there strict rules for being in a Faction like Silver Crusade? Can a Neutral Cleric that animates dead and enslaves them be accepted or am I just asking for problems in PFS?
4) Suggestions on a few feats? I think I have 2 free feats to spend.

Would love to hear from anyone with suggestions/advice!

EDIT: Just realized that deities have specific subdomains available and not all subdomains that fall under the original domain....so Brigh doesn't get Ashe and Caves which you'd think she would.... and Shyka doesn't get Undead domain....well back to the drawing board with those. I'll present some other deities soon.

[haruhiko88]

Worship Yamatsumi the Mountain Lord, you will get access to the cave subdomain and ash oddly enough. Plus he gives you free tetsubo proficiency. You might also want to sit in with the Qadira faction as a cleric animating dead in a faction that is the home of a majority of the paladins might like to have a word with you. Also the Eastern Mysteries faction trait from Qadira seems really tempting if you want to bank on save or suck. Heighten spell is a great feat for later on to ensure that even your lowest level save or suck spells can be usable. Consecrate spell is another really good spell for an aasimar cleric since it will maximize against evil creatures.

[Kysune]

Thanks Haruhiko88,

I agree the Eastern Mysteries trait is great, I have it on my Illusionist Wizard. Seems like Silver Crusade is not the place for this character. Is there any lore besides http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Yamatsumi on what this deity is like and how follower/clerics should behave?

Any thoughts on traits? Dangerously Curious with my high charisma? or Magical Lineage: Burning Hands (or Fireball) to add free Empower metamagic?

How often does a caster get into a position where he has to make Combat Casting checks? Is it worth it to get the Combat Casting feat and/or Focused Mind trait?

[Kysune]

*chirp*

[Majuba]

FYI - magical lineage doesn't make empower free, makes it only cost +1 instead of +2. Eastern Mysteries *is* really good - just be sure to use it! :) It's not always going to make a difference, but it will often enough. Especially if using it on an area of effect spell.

Don't use it on anything hitting your allies though... ahem.

Also, don't forget sound burst.

[bob_the_monster]

Magda Luckbender wrote:

One very blasty Cleric option is the Theologian archetype with e.g. the Fire domain. You get Burning Hands and Fireball same as a Wizard, and can cast them in full armor. The Theologian archetype allows you to memorize multiple domain spells, so you can load up. This approach would use stats WIS --> CON --> CHA --> DEX--> STR--> INT-->

When you said, "A Cleric who does offensive damage", were you only talking about spell damage? Clerics make effective martial combatants. With a lot of build resources a martial cleric can almost match a dedicated martial combatant. Even with minimal build investment a Cleric can be a competent martial combatant. For example, just a 14 STR, Power Attack, a Two Handed Weapon, and some buffs can produce pretty decent martial damage numbers for a Cleric. Do not lightly discard basic martial competence, especially when it is so cheap.

This. Focus on ways to get your caster level up. Varisian tattoo, traits, spell specialization feat, Theologian archetype. You should be able to swing a +4-5 CL easily.

For a martial build, I recommend getting Power Attack and looking at Destruction, Demon and Growth domains. Worship a deity with a good favored weapon, or consider a dip into Barbarian or Fighter.

At higher levels, consider channeling negative energy (with Selective Channel) for that extra damage in a tough fight. Quick Channel can help turn a move action into some extra damage in a round.

[Kysune]

What are people's thoughts on a Lawful Good Cleric with Alignment channel? If Negative channeling is superior then I'm stuck with a Neutral alignment, otherwise if I pick an Evil deity then I'm not able to Holy Smite, etc evil aligned creatures.

Trying to consider my alignment options here.

[Magda Luckbender]

Alignment Channel is great if you expect to be facing many Outsiders of that type. It would be ideal for e.g. Wrath of the Righteous. Otherwise it's probably not worth a feat.