So, I was looking over the Thassilonian Dungeon location and it dawned on me that there might be come interesting situations that arise from it.
Thassilonian Dungeon says:
At This Location: If you play a spell with the Arcane trait, you may immediately draw a card.
Now, I saw else where that Seoni's power would not trigger this because it does not have the Arcane trait (even though it seems that it should), but my question is how does Ezren interact with this card?
Ezren's Power says:
After you play a spell with the Arcane trait, you may examine the top card of your deck; if it's a spell , you may put it in your hand.
So, first question is does this allow him to possibly draw two cards? Second question is which effect goes off first?
The first one I am pretty sure is that yes he can draw up to two (with a little luck).
The second question may not be important, but the use of "immediately" seems to suggest timing. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask (usually). Thanks everyone for the help and debate.
Interesting...
I didn't know that Seoni's power didn't trigger this. I thought that the skills you use add their traits (so when she uses her power it has the Arcane trait since she's using her Arcane 'die'). Perhaps it's because it's not actually a spell? Even though her power says it counts as playing a spell?
I'd appreciate a link to the forum about this.
As for Ezren. I have played it that you do get both effects. In general, in this game when there are two simultaneous effects the turn player chooses the order in which to resolve them and that's how I've played it. He can choose (and should say aloud) which one he's doing first and then do it.
If there is any question about this it might be that the dungeon's power is "immediately" (on playing the Arcane spell) whereas Ezren's power is "after" you play an Arcane spell - so perhaps the dungeon's draw should always come first?
Where did you read the bit about Seoni?
I can see why she would not be able to draw a card. She is using her Arcane skill, but I guess that does not give her the Arcane trait though. Although you would think that the skill would provide the trait. This makes me think of the thread "what is a Melee based combat check". There was lots of discussion about skills and traits there, after looking at it again. It seems like the skill does not add the trait, but i wonder if this is correct.
As for Ezren, the simple answer would be he draws two cards. The only reason i could find that he might not is if I apply a rule that is not directly related, but might be. It's the one about during an exploration if multiple effects give you additional explorations then it only counts as on exploration. Of course, this applies to the location deck, and i don't think it will limit Ezren to only drawing one card, but hey you wanted debate, so there you go.
Here you go H4ppy.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q4rs?Seonis-Spell-Power#2
@JScotShady - that post was by a player, not by Mike or Vic. I'm pretty sure it's incorrect and that skills DO add their names to a check as traits.
@Tracker1 - Mike's response in the Melee combat check thread said that (a) was true, i.e. checks based on your Melee 'die' are Melee checks, which I took to mean that they have the Melee trait.
Edit: To make sure I've got this right, I've started a new thread, hopefully Mike or Vic will find time to drop in there!
H4ppy, I took it that since Mike had responded to the thread but didn't feel the need to correct the previous post that he was agreeing with it. My assumption, well you know what they say about "assume".
I saw the new thread (thanks) and I look forward to seeing an answer. Collectively this group is finding some interesting twists that may not have been realized by the designers and usually the same group seems to have some good answers.
This same question has come up on BGG.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1107897/thassilonian-dungeon-and-ezren
It might be helpful if someone with authority could weigh in to clarify:
1. Can Ezren use both his power and the Thassilonian Dungeon's effect when he plays a spell?
2. If yes, does the player decide the order or does one come before the other?
Thanks.
We had a discussion about this the other day. I came down on the side of "the player decides the order," but we may be tightening this up a bit.
Tightening complete?: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9ral
Tightening complete?: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9ralWhat exactly are you referrencing there, Hawk?
The FAQ was updated. It specifies that Ezren uses his power during the "Apply any effects that happen after the encounter". So I was asking if that was all the tightening Mike had mentioned might be happening soon.
To me, I'd now read this as the Thassilonian Dungeon's power says "immediately" so for its power you don't wait until this step to apply its power. The card overrules the rulebook. So...
Ezren plays Force Missile, since he played it, during the attempt the check part of the sequence, during that step he draws for the location's power.
Then after rolling the dice and taking damage, he moves on to the "Apply any effects that happen after the encounter" step. Here is where he examines the next card in his deck and can draw it if it is a spell.
Then he moves on to resolving the encounter.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and its still ambiguous, or maybe we should also apply the location's power during the "Apply any effects that happen after the encounter" step and sort of forget about the word "immediately". But the above is how I would read it at this point.
Tightened.