It may be the exhaustion after staying up until 4 AM to finish the Tainted for Amora Game talking, but I'm feeling a little masochistic. I'm looking for one more big project to start in February. How would you react if I rewrote the Truenamer to make it a cool concept that didn't just so happen to be in the middle of a balance cesspool? I've already got a central mechanic worked out that will keep a similar feel while removing that skill check nonsense.
Anyway, bed.
Where you all are.
Much tired.
Such relax.
Interjection Games, Gnomish Mad Scientist Publisher falling asleep at the fume hood
Tell us more...
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Really liked Truenamer in 3.5 but the reliance on a skill check made it funky to play and didn't bode well with most of the group. I'm definitely interested what you have in mind though!
Color me interested as well.
I'm listening.
I'm down with this.
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Alright, I'm awake, so I'll splain. In this instance, splaining is going to look a lot like me moaning, "The pain... the pain..." like a certain Professor who can't find his way to Earth.
At its very simplest, Truenaming is a concept I can get behind. There's a DC. You have a bonus. Roll 1d20, add the bonus, and cast if you meet the DC. Each time you use a specific Truespell each day, the DC of that specific Truespell goes up by +2 because the universe is getting fed up with you making everything pink or asking it to insert subcutaneous hissing cockroaches all over the place. That's good.
The problems are as follows:
Problem: The system is predicated on the assumption that you WILL powergame it. Consider, to cast a spell on a critter, you need to make a DC 15 + 2x its level or +2x its hit dice, whichever is higher. Yes, it is harder to cast your magic missile on Orcus than it is to cast it on the housecat threatening a peasant. Further, assuming you fight things around your level, the DC increases faster than your +1 Int every 4 levels and +1 rank every level can account for. Without powergaming, you get less of each spell as you level! Further, the DC to affect a magic item is 15 + 2x level, while the DC to affect, say, a twig, is DC 25. How on earth is it easier to mess with my +1 sword?
But I digress. Let's consider the implications of this. For the following example, I assume a level 3 party.
Swarm of zombies - DC 19 - spam like there's no tomorrow!
12 HD dragon zombie boss fight - DC 39 - nothing. works.
Solution: My solution to this problem is twofold. One, make "Truenaming" like a Concentration check. I say "like" a Concentration check because even though they will use the same base formula, I wish to use a different name in order to have complete control over just how much Truenaming can be boosted. I know there are builds out there that munchkin Concentration, so I have to dismiss the notion of making them one and the same, though putting a line in there that makes it so spells and abilities that increase Concentration DCs add half that amount, rounded down, to Truenaming DCs would be cool. Two, make the DCs for using Truespells based on the level of the Truespell, not the level of the target. This more closely approximates magic systems that are already in place. A magic missile smacks Orcus as easily as it does a housecat, but force missiles is harder to cast under duress.
Problem: The system is predicated on random behavior. It is as though every spell that isn't totally trivial has an arcane spell failure chance. This stinks!
Solution: Though some part of me rather enjoys the idea of forcing a character to roll checks to cast the big spells, I am going to install a rule that allows the Truenamer to take "10" on his Truenaming check if the Truespell is not of the highest level that he can cast. This way, the "hold back the big guns" Gandalf-style Truenamer can sit back and feel superior about not going nova, while those who go nova always have something to use when the nova stops working.
Very intrigued now. Looking forward to this. You nailed the parts I hated about it on the head and have what sounds like some very viable solutions.
What is the limitation on the number of times you can spam your 'take 10' truenaming spells?
I like it, and will follow with interested. I agree with Aleron, you hit to two biggest pain points for me.
I've been working on ways to make this concept my own rather than a ripoff. Here are a few points at which my Truenamer will differentiate.
1. My "lexicons" will be known as "codices". There are four of them, people, things, places, and ideas. At this early point in development, people and things will be reversible like classic truenaming. (It was an awesome mechanic!)
2. Small thing here. Utterences are now Recitations. It's just a cleaner word.
3. Truenamers gain the ability to use "inflections". Inflections are, in essence, the metamagic of truenaming. They do not increase the recitation level, but instead increase the Truenaming DC. Failing a Truenaming check with an inflection strains the truenamer's vocal cords, imposing a penalty to Truenaming checks equal to the level of the recitation attempted for 1 round. To this end, many truenamers will shy away from adding more power to anything that is already a risk, but will habitually use inflections on low level abilities. Each inflection can only be used so many times per day.
What is the limitation on the number of times you can spam your 'take 10' truenaming spells?
Consider, the Truenaming DC goes up by 2 each time you use a particular recitation. The limit is, therefore, built in. This means a high level truenamer has an absolutely tremendous amount of "gas", but, since one of the hallmarks of the truenamer is that recitations NEVER get more powerful as the truenamer levels, many of the 1st and 2nd level recitations will be an utter waste of time at 16th level, unless quickened somehow. For this reason, the quickening inflection will increase the speed at which the Truenaming DC increases.
More approval from me. That all sounds good. So far this is looking like it'll be a Day 1 purchase for me like Maestro was. :)
I'm not familiar with the Truenamer, but this sounds like a really interesting product. I'm with Aleron on this, could be a Day 1 buy.
Here's the first recitation. Another 124 of these and we should be in business! Following in the footsteps of classic truenaming, all recitations are single target (unless an inflection is used) and have a range of 60 feet (unless an inflection is used). In a departure from classic truenaming, saving throws are going to be called for rather than this Saving Throw: none nonsense. To make up for this, recitations will be a shade more powerful than they were in classic Truenaming.
Hardened Hide
Recitation Level: 1
Codex: Heart and Mind
Duration: 5 rounds
Saving Throw: normal - Will negates (harmless); reverse - Will negates
Normal: The subject of your recitation experiences slight discomfort as his flesh thickens temporarily.
Your target's skin becomes tough and unyielding, much like a suit of boiled leather armor. This recitation grants your target a +2 enhancement bonus to natural armor. Constructs, incorporeal undead, elementals, and other creatures without an organic outer covering are immune to this recitation.
Reverse: The subject of your recitation experiences significant discomfort as his flesh dries out and cracks.
Your target's skin becomes tough and craggy, then abruptly splits, causing great discomfort. This recitation imposes a -2 penalty to the target's natural armor bonus to AC. If the target has no natural armor bonus to AC, then it takes a -1 penalty to AC instead. Constructs, incorporeal undead, elementals, and other creatures without an organic outer covering are immune to this recitation.
Notice no line about spell resistance and I was curious about that. Intentional or oversight?
The other question to come to mind is true naming obviously using a verbal component (unless inflection maybe?) but what about somatic?
Truenaming - all have SR, all verbal components only. It'll be said once in the Truemagic section rather than take up 375 lines of paper. :)
Makes sense to me. Thanks!
Of course, this is also coming from the guy who refuses to write: As Ability X, but... when writing greater and lesser versions of spells. What if there's a page cutoff? Now you have to flip pages! Your turn bogs down!
In short, expect a lot of ABILITY_NAME,lesser and ABILITY_NAME,greater with this product. Also expect to pay a little less per 1,000 words this time around.
Given the first day is breaking 10 pages of content, expect a ridiculous amount of content.
I'm really looking forward to this.
What is the limitation on the number of times you can spam your 'take 10' truenaming spells?
My guess would be they still would follow the rule of the DC increasing the more times you use the same one. In other words, depending on your 'concentration' or whatever it is going to be called, you can safely cast it only so many times (dependent on how high your ability is). Once you can't cover the DC by taking 10 you'll have to roll normally.
Correct.
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Because, deep down, everyone wants to be Baron Geddon.
Apart from the easy to write "bread and butter" abilities, I'm trying to sneak two or three unique abilities like this into each recitation level. I can see this being the biggest blast the class gets before 3rd level recitations, so it will likely be quite popular unless the GM decides to throw living bombs in the truenamer's face. The reverse of this ability will not come up often, but making obscure abilities like that piggyback abilities that people will use all the time is one of the great joys of working with the reverse recitation mechanic.
Declaration of Combustion
Recitation Level: 2
Codex: Heart and Mind
Duration: normal - 2 rounds; reverse - 5 rounds
Saving Throw: normal - Fortitude negates; reverse - Fortitude negates
Normal: Your recitation compares the subject to some form of explosive that is known to you. The result is really fun to watch.
Your target becomes a living bomb! When the recitation's duration ends, the subject explodes, taking 4d6 points of fire damage and dealing 3d6 points of fire damage to all other creatures within 10 feet with a Reflex save for half damage. If the recitation is stopped early by artificial means, such as by dispel magic or an antimagic field, then the subject does not explode.
As soon as the recitation begins, the subject understands that something very bad is about to happen. Subjects with an Intelligence of 3 or higher instinctively understand the implications of the recitation and may attempt to influence collateral damage by charging toward the reciter's allies or running far from his own allies.
Reverse: Your recitation compares the subject to a unit of explosive that refuses to explode like the others, a dud. If the subject is one of those creatures that explodes to protect the rest of the colony or whatnot, the result is, again, really fun to watch.
Your target becomes incapable of violent ejaculations of power. For the duration of this recitation, the subject cannot use abilities that kill itself in the process. If it tries, nothing happens and the action used to attempt the ability is wasted. Further, if the subject has an ability that is triggered by the subject's death, then this ability cannot trigger over the course of the duration of the recitation.
This is excellent! I, too, am looking forward to it!
Reverse Declaration of Combustion is just the thing for those pesky frost worms, balors, burning skeletons, and such-like monsters. I fully support the "piggyback obscure mechanic on common mechanic" approach.
Alright, I had a sudden realization. If you count a recitation and its reverse as two "spells", then the Codex of Heart and Mind will have as much content as the entire ethermancer - all on its own! In short, I think I'm shooting toward my first $10+ product here. Since stopping this from happening would stifle the creativity of those who purchase the final product, I intend to embrace the fact that this will be absolutely monstrous in size.
To that end, prestige classes! I have one prestige class worked out in mind with more as the realization hits me. If you would like to see something, just grab my neck and steer it in the desired direction.
Seeker of the First Words
What is it? - The Seeker of the First Words is a holy man of a god of knowledge or a god held responsible for the creation of a race who believes that the First Language forms a part of his god's portfolio. That is to say, the all-father of the dwarves didn't take an ingot of the stuff of life and hammer out a dwarf, he just stood there, said something, and a bunch of short, hairy guys with mining picks popped into being. Needless to say, some religions really hate having their creation stories messed with.
What does it do? - The Seeker of the First Words is a 5 level prestige class that mixes truemagic and divine magic. The class receives full progression for both, as well as the ability to use channel energy as part of a special inflection. By combining a low level recitation with a channel energy, it becomes possible to affect all creatures in a wide radius with the same recitation! A couple additional uses of channel energy and the selective channeling feat round out this prestige class. As a five level prestige class, there is no in-your-face capstone, though the inflection does become more powerful at the very end. Regardless, players who like the theurge playstyle will enjoy this prestige class. Compatible with both clerics and paladins.
Rough draft of the special section of the level-up table.
1 - Channel the Word
2 - +1 Channel use
3 - Selective channeling
4 - +1 Channel use
5 - Channel the Gospel
Alright, I've got a Codex done, minus a few low level abilities and a few "signature" abilities. Given there's some emotional investment in this class, would any of you gents be willing to give me some feedback regarding what's there?
Definitely! Though I haven't played a truenamer in probably 5-6 years so it's a bit fuzzy remembering now (which might be a bonus heh).
I'd love to take a look and give feedback! Note, I've never played the truenamer in 3.5 (well, it was pretty bad in 3.5, so you can't blame me, I hope).
I didn't play it, either, though I did build a truenamer in '07, stared at the implications, and went right back to the binder... which my local D&D group still wouldn't let me use. In the end, I became the DM simply to remove that chokehold on creativity.
This truenamer is looking to be more of a support character. Direct, instantaneous damage is almost nonexistent in the first Codex. (I think there's precisely one ability that does that.) Instead, creatures get "marked" or get dotted up. X damage after 2 rounds. Y damage a round every round. You explode in 3 rounds. That sort of thing.
Anyway, I blather. Simply give me an e-mail address via PM and I'll get you added to that ever-more-complicated Gmail circles system I have.
PM'd!
I'd just like to say that I, personally, love playing support characters. I know it's not the most popular play style, but it definitely has adherents.
Alright, chaps, we have over 11,000 words of content that's looking significantly less rough around the edges with the Codex of Artifice in development right now. The truenamer is an awesome idea that was never given a good shot at an existence. Come influence its second lease on life now - all it takes is a PM, a little time, and a willingness to have strong opinions.
Read it over a couple times. I love the way you word things and inject some humor into them now and then.
The porcupine one had me in stitches. I was getting weird looks (but totally worth it).
Editing it in because it was hilarious:
Reverse: Conversely, when a recitation posits that a creature is most definitely NOT a porcupine, the universe takes notice. The backlash almost suggests a tinge of irritation that anything would dare not to be like a porcupine in any way, shape, or form.
Hey, one very specific question. Those "When this recitation expires" abilities --- does it sound like the save is at the beginning or the end for you? The way I want them to be is save at the start. If failed, wait a couple rounds and smack with the effect.
Had to find one as an example:
Your target becomes somewhat subject to mechanisms built into the universe itself that deal with paradoxes by crushing the problem utterly. When the recitation's duration expires, the subject takes 1d4 temporary negative levels. On a successful Fortitude save, the subject takes 1 temporary negative level. If the subject is killed by this recitation, his body is reduced to dust, making it impossible to raise using spells that require that the body be whole.
When I initially read them I had taken away that they were at the end when it expires, for both the saving throw and the effect.
They could use some clarifying. Like the above one, if you make the save then at the start...does it still take the level after the duration or immediately?
Also when it expires wasn't initially clear to me...since it is say 5 rounds from when it is used, would it be on your turn or the enemies? My assumption was yours, but I could see it going the other way too.
5? Yep, that got smacked by the other sweep. Pulling it back down to where it was. But yeah, I'll do that tonight. Thanks.
Very interested. My one gripe (well there were many with the krjap that came out of Tome of Magic) with Truenamers was that they were a one-shot that had no further developement. So very easy to play out quickly with little reason to revisit. If we're to see a new and improved Truenamer I'd like to see MORE. More options, a few archetypes, soemthing that makes it a bit more interesting that a one character side-trip.
As I have demonstrated with the tinker, if you keep buying it, I will keep finding new and ridiculous ways to take the class in new and interesting directions. I wrote a base class that acts as a squad within a party. Cool idea. Though there were four or five main ways a tinker could go, it was a "one-shot", persay. It sold. I expanded. It kept selling. I expanded again. It decided to sell a copy a day for almost a year. I raised an eyebrow, cringed at the layout when I went back to look at it, then kept expanding! Nowadays, a tinker can fill the absolutely necessary and utterly indispensable role of a Power Ranger with his Megazord, be a musical ensemble within a party, combine zombies and robots for a horde of minions, build complex weapons for his own use, ignore his robots and become a brilliant cybernetic surgeon for the heck of it, or let himself die and let a class feature become the new PC. Heck, I even went in and added some more inventions because people specifically wanted support for submarines and bombers. I know that, somewhere out there, somebody has combined the helicopter rotor (from Tinkering 201) with a cockpit, made himself a mechgineer/grafter (from Super Mega Ultra Mecha and Under the Knife), and is flying around inside his SMUM dropping two full compartments of alchemist's fire on monsters in the first round of combat while flying zombies controlled by the party necromancer (from the core rulebook) drop bombs from lobtubes that the mechgineer grafted onto them that very morning.
The very fact that an ever-increasing number of people buy these products, albeit not yet enough to support me were I totally independent, continues to boggle the mind. Sure, I know the ideas are crazy and out there and that attracts a specific sort of person. It's just, you know, I love doing this and money typically comes from doing things you hate. ("That's why they call it work!" says every abusive lead or manager ever.) The implication of success is utterly ridiculous. If I make this work, which math suggests I am, I have effectively won at life, a fact I will immediately rub into the face of my friend working with COBOL for a living. Of course, he'll counter with the babby that is currently forming in his spouse. And the spouse, too, I suppose. He did well there.
Getting back on track, truenaming is a massive tapestry that can support dozens of ridiculous angles like the tinker prestige class concepts listed above. Without "machines" to tie it down, I can easily make the truenamer more ridiculous than the tinker by far. Yes, I will be offering a "one-shot" with a couple bells and whistles to start. I have to! I'm just one man and I can't spend the extra time on a product when sales start to dip to terrifyingly bad levels after 3 weeks with no releases. But, hey, if enough people buy the product, that's a signal to me that gets you more of that product. And we'll play that game for as long as the product sells. Do you want the truenamer to have options out the wazoo? As with all of the brilliant ideas with half-baked execution that are the Tome of Magic, I'd say yes... but make it so I can stay indoors while I do it. That's only fair.
Interjection Games
Longwinded gnomish mad scientist publisher