| MattR1986 |
Thus far this char has worked pretty well in our RotRL campaign and we are now on the Hook Massacre module:
In Buffing a 19 str Barbarian its worked out pretty well in making sure she can dish out the damage so long as she doesn't roll a bunch of 2's and 3's.
Elf Wizard Transmuter 7
Str: 10.....Init: +4 (Feat) + 2 (Trait) +2 (fleet-footed): +8
Dex: 11.....Spell DC: 15 + SL
Con: 10.....vs. SR: +9
Int: 20.....Concentration: +12
Wis: 14.....AC: 10
Cha: 9......HP: 41
BaB +3......Fort/Ref/Will: +2/+2/+7 (+2 v ench)
CMB/CMD: +3/13Equipment [Magic] (~1? lbs, 16510 gp
Wands: Dispel Magic (2/day -5th lvl) (50 charges)
Mage Armor: (47), Shield: (49)
Magic Missile: (5th 33) (3rd-44)
Potions: CMWx2
Scrolls: Vanish, Comp Lang, Owl’s Wisdom, Invisibility, Bull’s Strength Dispel Magic, Exp. Retreat, Enlarge Person
Wand of Fireball (5th): (47)
Picked up (but part of Opp school and not sure if my char wants to use them)
Wand/Ray of Enfeeblement (13-3rd)
Wand/Vampiric Touch (33-5th)Spells Today: Telefist 7/8
0th (4): Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Message, Read Magic
1st (6+1[+Enlarge Person]): +Enlarge Person, +Protection from Evil, +Vanish, Alarm, Feather Fall, ?
2nd (4+1[+Bull’s Strength]): +Bull’s Strength, +Bear’s Endurance, +Cat’s Grace, +Flaming Sphere
3rd (3+1[+Haste]): Lightning Bolt, +Draconic Reservoir, +Clairvoyance, <? >
4th (2+1[+Mnemonic Enhancer]): Greater Invisibility, +Summon Monster IV (or Stoneskin)FEATS: Scribe scroll, Eschew materials, Imp. Initiative, Brew Potion, Craft Wand, ???
With a stack of her Rage ability + Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength, and Haste ..and then if you throw in draconic reservoir then lightning bolt through her at enemies or fireball her when in melee and now she's doing 4d6+22 x 3. An average of 80 dmg/rd against an AC of 20. There's always Cat's Grace, Protection from evil or Illusion spells to buff her defense as well or throw in some magic missile or fireball to finish enemies off at the end.
The thing is when I looked after 4th, it looks like the spells to buff her well kind of dwindle off. My question is, I've decided everything else, but before I level I need to pick a feat for 7th level and can't decide because I'm not sure what direction to go forward.
-Iron Will is always useful but doesn't help teh buff
-Minor Spell Expertise sets up for Major and could get extra enlarge person ..but I can get that with wands pretty cheaply
-Extend Spell would mean I could do a 14 round Haste, but not sure if this is worth investing in. Maybe start doing more summonining to have allies to aid her and with extend they can stay longer if they survive?
-Other metamagic feats like get quicken for when I can use it later to get insta-buffs?
-Fast Study to prepare spells (almost) on the fly? or Arcane builder to build items a little bit faster?
-Create Wondrous item seems ideal for making a belt of bull's strength and so on but not sure I'll have the 8 days soon to do it and if it'll be a waste at 7th.
Any insight here by the number crunch brigade is welcome.
| XMorsX |
I cannot see your opposition schools:
-I will sugget you to take craft wondrous items. It will save your whole party lots of money. I am sure you GM will give you enough time between adventures to make it worth it. The RotRl book suggests the GMs to do so after all.
-Consider taking Heighten Spell and then Prepared Spell to spells that you use most. Good choices include Haste for example. Especially good for the high lvls too, see Polymorph any Object and Time Stop.
- Opposition Research is great but I would like to see which schools you have "banned" first. Fast Study is good too but it would not be my priority.
-Do you have a familiar? If so, Improved Familair is a great choice. Take Faerie Dragon or Azata Lyrakien.
- Spell Penetration will become a must sooner or later.
Conclusion, in order of priority:
A) Improved Familiar if you have a familiar
or
B) Craft Wondrous Items
or
C) Fast Study
| MattR1986 |
I'm guessing you meant Preferred Spell? I looked at that as well, but wasn't sure cuz then I have to "waste" my 7th level feat for Heighten which I don't see a lot of utility in with what I have. I also have Mnemonic Enhancer which allows you to get back a spell you just used for 3rd and below. I have an arcane bond, not a familiar. As for spell penetration, if I'm doing mostly buffs I don't see why to invest in a +2 in SR especially when I know Xanesha had ridic SR and this is her older (more powerful) sibling.
I mentioned above Necromancy is an opp school, the other one is Enchantment. I forgot to mention I was also considering the opposition research one (enchantment) just for stuff like Heroism and Greater Heroism.
My two traits were Reactionary (+2 init) and tavern owner (+10% on selling items in Sandpoint). I also considered the two traits thing and looked over traits but didn't really see anything to really make it outweigh a normal feat. I could make a spell act as one level lower with magical lineage just for metamagic feats and hedge magician which slightly reduces costs to 5% ..would save 525 gp in making a 4th level wand. or ~280 for a 3rd level.
Craft Wondrous atm is looking the best but I really hope I don't have to wait till 9th to get to use it lol.
| MattR1986 |
I also considered odd things like Maximize spell and Touch of Gracelessness..that's only a DC 16 Fort save but could drop a creatures Dex by 11 (-5 ac) or minimum of 6 (-3 ac). But it would use a 4th level slot and there are probably better spells for this at 4th level I havent looked at yet, either way thats basically equiv to +3 to +5 to hit.
Magda Luckbender
|
Pretty awesome Wizard you have there. You might consider adding a feat that improves your personal defense in case things go wrong. I'll also cast my vote for two traits: Magical Linneage (Your favorite spell you want to metamagic) or Gifted Adept (Your favorite spell) or Transmutation, and Second Chance so you never fail an important saving throw. Crafting would also be good.
| MattR1986 |
Thank you. For personal defense, shield + mage armor for AC 18 usually works out ok which is why I have the wands for them. As for those traits, I think my DM would prefer we stick to normal Paizo books and not more obscure companion type material.
As for increasing caster level and metamagic, I'm not sure increasing CL by one or two really is going to be a substantial difference to buffing. It just gives an extra round of spell time...and for metamagic, the only metas I can see being useful for buffing are Quicken to get two in and Extend to get them longer. Quicken I can't even utilize if I took it now other than for 0 level spells, lol. An extend rod, lesser is also only 3k which would be pretty sweet to have for stuff like Haste. With craft rod at 9th I could make a regular one for just 5.5k.
Unless someone can make a good argument I can't see anything outweighing the Barbarian having an instant +4 to Str from a wondrous belt, which saves me a round of casting Bull's Strength (and a few 2nd level slots to figure out something else to do with).
| XMorsX |
I'm guessing you meant Preferred Spell? I looked at that as well, but wasn't sure cuz then I have to "waste" my 7th level feat for Heighten which I don't see a lot of utility in with what I have. I also have Mnemonic Enhancer which allows you to get back a spell you just used for 3rd and below. I have an arcane bond, not a familiar. As for spell penetration, if I'm doing mostly buffs I don't see why to invest in a +2 in SR especially when I know Xanesha had ridic SR and this is her older (more powerful) sibling.
I mentioned above Necromancy is an opp school, the other one is Enchantment. I forgot to mention I was also considering the opposition research one (enchantment) just for stuff like Heroism and Greater Heroism.
My two traits were Reactionary (+2 init) and tavern owner (+10% on selling items in Sandpoint). I also considered the two traits thing and looked over traits but didn't really see anything to really make it outweigh a normal feat. I could make a spell act as one level lower with magical lineage just for metamagic feats and hedge magician which slightly reduces costs to 5% ..would save 525 gp in making a 4th level wand. or ~280 for a 3rd level.
Craft Wondrous atm is looking the best but I really hope I don't have to wait till 9th to get to use it lol.
Buffing you martials is nice, but there are so many good things that you can do with a wizard, especially as you lvl up, that focusing only on buffs seems limiting. There are many great debuffs even on the Transmutation school, like Slow. Spell Penetration in combination with your racial bonus vs SR will make sure that you can use such spells to great effect.
Mnemonic Vestment sucks, avoid it. 10 minutes casting in order to trade a 4th lvl spell with a 3rd lvl spell, really?
Highten Spell is a feat tax, but it still has its uses. Take Snapdragon fireworks, aplly to it dazing and highten metamagic and you ahve a great debuffing spell that after the first round can be used as a swift action.
Prefered spell (this is what I meant, you are right) can be taken multilple times too, so that you have spntaneously-casting spells from many lvls. It is totally worth it. Other than Haste, one of the best spell to make spontaneous is Telekinetic Charge. This will let you martial full-attack all the time, it is a great way to boost their power.
I would actually prefer to take Opposition research for ther Necromancy school. Heroism is nice but you do not need to load yourself on buffs, Haste is better anyway. Instead, with Necromancy you will have access to Enervation which is seriously awesome and later Suffocation, Waves of fatigue, waves of exhaustion etc.
What I want to say is that Highten Spell -> Prefered Spell is an investment that will pay off even at higher lvls. You coudl take them as your 9th and 10th lvl feats, so that you do not feel that you are hanging with a feat tax for many lvls. For the time being though, Craft Wondrous Items is probably your best bet.
| Rory |
Are you talking offense/damage only?
Stoneskin is a really good buff to place on a level 7 barbarian. Keeping the barbarian up long enough to kill things is pretty nice.
Ablative Barrier (Ultimate Combat) is a cheaper version that helps keep the barbarian living.
Topple Spell (the metamagic feat) could trip foes so the barbarian gets +4 to hit, or gets an attack of opportunity when they stand.
Here is a level 4 offense spell for you from Ultimate Combat.
Telekinetic Charge
School evocation [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one willing creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
You telekinetically launch an ally across the battlefield to anywhere within this spell's range. While moving, your ally is flying just above the ground unless you wish otherwise. Movement from this spell provokes attacks of opportunity as normal, although you can lift your ally over objects or out of enemy reach, as long as your ally remains within this spell's range. If your ally lands adjacent to an opponent, he can spend an immediate action to make a melee attack against that opponent with a +2 bonus on the attack roll.
| XMorsX |
Stoneskin is actually very expensive in order to cast it regularly. It is not cost-efficient at all.
Toppling spell has been outclassed at 7th lvl, the CMDs of the boss monsters will be too high to make it matter.
I agree though that ablative barrier and especially telekinetic charge are great options.
| Rory |
Stoneskin is actually very expensive in order to cast it regularly. It is not cost-efficient at all.
Toppling spell has been outclassed at 7th lvl, the CMDs of the boss monsters will be too high to make it matter.
If all you are considering is the "boss monster" (ref. your comment on Toppling Spell), then Stoneskin is cheap, and gets relatively cheaper as you level.
Starting at level 9, it can approach the efficiency of a wand of cure light wounds, even when used on non-boss monsters.
The thing about a wizard is that they have different tools for different times. Trying to apply a fireball to a fire resistant mob doesn't work well for example. That doesn't mean it is outclassed by any means.
Toppling Spell is similar. There are a lot of monsters that the effect does work against and a lot that it does not. The trick is to know when and when not to use it. Having a +12 CMB for a free trip attempt isn't that bad either.
Remember, you can target 4 different foes with Magic Missile at level 7 and have a chance to trip them all. Fun times!
| MattR1986 |
Part of the reason I've liked buffing thus far is A) it has worked well and B) it always works. My first char was a Fae Sorcerer gnome and even at low levels when the DCs were like 18-20 he was still failing like 90% of the time on his enchantment/debuff spells. I dunno if the DM was fudging the rolls to keep his bad guys from being disabled or just rolling really well with good will saves, but it made my PC pretty impotent especially when we started to face undead and creatures immune to mind affect.
Mnemonic Enhancer seemed to be the least bad option. You can memorize up to 3 spell levels during memorization or use it to immediately get back a 3rd level or less spell you just cast. One of my spells has to be transmutation and there really weren't any good ones I could see. Maybe reduce person mass against opponents which would be DC 19? Though a fort save vs. what seem to be super-ogres and possibly giants doesn't seem that ideal. Calcified touch means I'm going to have to get close enough to ogres to touch them and those dudes have dealt out 30 pts of damage in one round to my buddies. Symbol of slowing just makes a symbol that costs 1000 gp for just 7 rounds of slowing, seems worthless. I'll have to look at the snapdragon thing, also.
Good call on Telekinetic Charge. Didn't see that one. Didn't see the material cost for stoneskin either. The other ones I was going to buy/take as you can see Acid Pit, Black Tentacles, Greater Invis and SM IV. Maybe I should just replace something like Acid Pit with Telekinetic Charge then? Or drop black tentacles since its only a CMB of +12 and does 1d6+4?
As for Ablative Barrier, the +2 to AC and converting some to nonlethal is nice, but when you take into account she has guarded life and in rage has like 70 hp or something and If ogres are doing 30+ when they hit the 5 converted isn't worth a 3rd level slot I could use for things like haste, fireball, keen edge etc.
And maybe I'll do 9th Craft Rod and then 10th and 11th Heighten + Preferred to get more utility out of them.
| MattR1986 |
Also: Enlarge person mass would seem to be a waste as well. Who am I going to add? Myself? No reason. The Cleric? He heals. The Rogue/Alchemist? He just throws bombs and sometimes does damage. The TWF Fighter? He is kind of the secondary, assistant damage dealer to the barbarian and dropping his dex would mean he couldn't use the feat when I assume he takes Improved TWF when he can get Dex 17 at 8th level.
| MattR1986 |
lol how often are you in complete darkness to use that? It'd be a waste of a slot 95% of days. I forgot to look in ultimate combat for their spells that's how I missed Telekinetic charge and Obsidian Flow. Hmm, 3d6 dmg and entangled (-2 att and effective -2 to ac + 1/2 move (or no move?) save vs. half dmg + no entangle with a Ref DC 19. And have to have the area to utilize it.
Compare this with an extra haste, or fireball/l.b. (7d6 1/2 ref) or dispel magic or keen edge etc. and I'm not seeing how it is better. In theory you should never downgrade for a lower spell, but I'm not seeing how any 4th level trans spell beats the 3rd level spells.
| XMorsX |
Being in complete darkness is not rare at all. Most dungeons are like that. I believe though that Stone Shape is actually the better option. It rewards creativity and clever tinking. Making doors from nowhere, trapping someone in a dungeon and so forth makes for satisfing moments.
Obsidian Flow is a mediocre spell, bu tit certainly is better than a fireball. The damage is weak anyway, so the fact that it has the potential to cripple to mobility of the enemies (Ref save is a weak save usually) makes it a better choice.
The other spells are probably better, but mnemonic enchant is still a bad deal, the fact that you need to pay 50g every time you cast it does not make it look better.
Another interesting spell is Scorching Ash Form. It is tecnically for Iffrits only, but it is not illogical to ask your GM to learn it if you cannot find something else taht you like.
| MattR1986 |
Hm, ya just saw the 50 gp ticket price, even though I'm not sure our DM has ever paid attention to Material components. And stone shape is only useful if you happen to be near an area that has stone. In a forest, field, wooden building or pretty much anywhere but a castle or dungeon that uses stone it becomes obsolete.
Much of the time the monsters just stand there toe to toe against the barbarian anyway so not being able to move doesn't really mean much, lol.
I may reconsider grabbing beast shape II. It has its uses like if I want to climb something or fly up something..swim somewhere. Or if I want to book it or someone could ride me to get to an escaping enemy. The biggest bummer is you cant full attack mounted.
| XMorsX |
I believe that you underestimate Stone Shape, half your encounters in RotRl are in dungeons or inside caves, buildings or fortresses. You will not regret having it.
But, for a utility spell, take a look at the Ride the Waves spell too. It will solve all your swimming issues.
| MattR1986 |
Hmm. On second thought,
| MattR1986 |
I generally wouldn't look at debuffs as buffs because they aren't for certain: for one, my ranged touch is only +3, it'll be +5 at 8th which still is crap against anything with a few items and Dex so its at best a 50/50 crapshoot. Then they have a fort save (which if they lack dex then they likely have this) vs. DC 19 (21 with Fox's Cunning) and against a lot of things that drops to 50/50 as well. This for 1d4 levels to get -1 to -4 on most rolls and hope to get a good enough roll on a d4 that they lose access to at least one spell level. I'm hoping on 3 good rolls for an all or nothing benefit.
I'd have to decide whether my character would use Necro spells which up to this point he has avoided (as opposition school and on principle).
Also feeblemind is enchantment (opp school) so I'd have to use two feats to get my opp schools for that combo.