People of the Sand Living Monolith Change

[Pirate Rob]

Obviously this hasn't hit additional resources quite yet but I'm going to run into some trouble for my character with the Living Monolith prestiege class.

First of all I will no longer meet the prerequisites as they are changing from Know (engineering) 1 rank, Know (history) 1 rank, and Know (religion) 1 rank to 4 4 2 ranks in the above skills.

Next it used to be full BaB but is now 3/4s (full Bab when using Ka stone) meaning my character will not have enough BaB to qualify for some of his feats.

The new living monolith will also give me the toughness feat, I of course already have toughness.

[Nefreet]

Yikes. That's quite a change. Is the PrC worth it anymore, IYO?

[thistledown]

I know in other cases where there were now two versions of a class running around (juju oracle maybe? don't remember specifics), both were legal as distinct entities. So assuming you had the book for the original, you would keep using that.

But I think the opposite has also happened, with the Winter Witch... so...

[CRobledo]

Nefreet wrote:

Yikes. That's quite a change. Is the PrC worth it anymore, IYO?

Having read People of the Sands, the new version is super awesome. Used to be melee only, and now it has a caster-focused option!

For Pirate Rob's question, why don't we wait on AR update? If scheduled as usual, we should know by Wednesday.

[Majuba]

Nefreet wrote:

Yikes. That's quite a change. Is the PrC worth it anymore, IYO?

It's still a pretty tasty class, for it's niche, and now much nicer for anyone with caster levels.

I do think making the upgrade optional would make a lot of sense.

[Shivok]

What will most likely happen is with the effective date that the AR is updated the older version of the Living Monolith will no longer be allowed.

Any Living Monoliths created after this date will use the People of the Sands version.

EDIT: Then again with the retraining rules you may be allowed to use the retraining rules to make modifications at a reduced cost to comply with the new version or keep the old version.

[Sitri]

The change in skill reqs could be really tough on many melee builds. I could see some people who bought the old book to play this prestige class upset that they no longer could use it.

[Caderyn]

I took a look at the changes does not seem to be that big sure its not full BAB anymore and I need to double check I still meet the prereqs (Although I think I do anyway as I didnt stop at 1 rank in the knowledges with my barb).

All in all it is not a big enough change to make it impossible to play the class, I would prefer if the old book is still legal (otherwise I have to buy the new one to play my only current character in tier 3-7)

[Greg Hurst]

My LM definitely wouldn't qualify for the new version. Depending on how they handle the old version, he may just end up with 4 more levels of fighter or barbarian. Choosing a d8 HP class was tough enough, but losing full BAB makes this even less appealing. One thing of note, when you get righteous might at LM 5, your duration for being enlarged drops from minutes/level to rounds/level. So you're not going to get much time at full BAB.

[GM Lamplighter]

According to the Guide:
"If a class, prestige class, or a class feature-dependent ability score is altered: You may rebuild your character to its current XP, maintaining the same equipment."

So, full rebuild from scratch (keeping equipment). You can of course sell equipment at usual rates if you totally change your focus.

In most cases, the new version replaces the old version, and I'd hate to see two rules sets for the same PrC running around.

[Pirate Rob]

Almost certainty I will be required to update to the new version.

Scott: I always read that as class-dependent ability score or prestige class-dependent ability score or class feature-dependent ability score. But now that you mention it I'm not sure which way its supposed to be read.

If your interpretation is correct that solves all the weird issues I have.

Related to that, this character also has heirloom weapon pre-errata and so has +2 to trip with his fauchard. Considering that this option isn't even listed in additional resources anymore I presume a full rebuild will cause me to lose that as well.

[Jeff Merola]

Pirate Rob wrote:

Almost certainty I will be required to update to the new version.

Scott: I always read that as class-dependent ability score or prestige class-dependent ability score or class feature-dependent ability score. But now that you mention it I'm not sure which way its supposed to be read.

If your interpretation is correct that solves all the weird issues I have.

Related to that, this character also has heirloom weapon pre-errata and so has +2 to trip with his fauchard. Considering that this option isn't even listed in additional resources anymore I presume a full rebuild will cause me to lose that as well.

I read it the same way that Scott does, since I can't think of a logical difference between "class-dependent ability score" and "class feature-dependent ability score."

[Mistwalker]

One reason that I could see there being two versions available is the book. It would likely be perceived as a bit harsh to say to anyone owning the first version book that they not only have to change their PC due to the new version, but that they also have to buy the new book.

Perhaps only grandfathering the old version?

[Caderyn]

If they allow a free rebuild to his current exp without changing gear that would be a fair way of making the new book the only legal source for the class.

The thing is simply put the classes are entirely too similar (only differing in 2-3 small things) to have both being legal at the same time as it would confuse players playing at a table with both versions.

EDIT: BTW I say this having an old style living monolith but I can understand as the class is being updated to pathfinder finally that the 3.5 version should no longer exist at all and I should need to choose to either rebuild or buy the new book to play him

[San-Chez]

Boy am I glad I retired out my Living Monolith I really dislike the reworking of the same material in new books it starts to feel like MTG.

[Hayato Ken]

Mid-Term-Geckos?

[CRobledo]

San-Chez wrote:

Boy am I glad I retired out my Living Monolith I really dislike the reworking of the same material in new books it starts to feel like MTG.

To be fair this is the first time in what, 5 years, that something has been reworked like this?

It's not like they are re-releasing classes and features every 4 months (MTG schedule).

[kinevon]

Pathfinder Player Companion: Osirion, Land of Pharaohs
Prestige Class: the Living Monolith version in this book is no longer legal after January 28, 2014. The version found in Pathfinder Player Companion: People of the Sands must be used. If your character took the prestige class before this date, it is grandfathered in and may be used until retirement. If you wish to switch to the new version of the prestige class, and you meet all the qualifications, you may do so at no cost

Fairly simple, if you are set as the old version, just keep using it.

If your old-style LM PC can meet the qualifications for the new version, you can switch.

Overall, they looked just about identical, barring the new caster variant. Slightly higher skill reqs, and a new language requirement, but very similar.

One big difference is that, under the old PrC, you would still have to pay for the stone upgrades. Not sure if the 5K and 8K GP costs make a lot of difference in the PC's wealth at those levels, though.