Hey all,
My 4th level Elf Teleportation(Conjuration)Specialist Wizard just bit the big one in a show down with Nuallia. We seemed to bypass some of Thistle top and stumbled into a boss fight. Bad tactical choices were made all around and my Wizzy was the victim.
I'm really saddened as i was getting into my character and felt i was just starting to learn to be an effective spell caster, having never played a caster before. Spells just were never my thing. So with that in mind i am looking for some advice/feedback on what to do next. I'd like to stay within the realm of arcane caster but don't know if i should go back to wizard.
What i'd like.
Human.
Trapfinding/disable device. (Not a must but a nice addition).
Arcane Caster.
KNOWLEDGES AND LANGUAGES. (Scholar of the Ancients Trait).
Control/Buffing/Debuffing and the occasional "I blow stuff up".
Options.
1. Seeker Sorcerer with the Sage Bloodline.
2. Seeker Sorcerer ?Bloodline? (1)/Archer Bard.
3. A not conjuration (or Sin Magic) Wizard.
4. Seeker Sage Sorcerer/Wizard.
5. Rogue(1)/Wizard.
Party Consists of
Dwarf Cleric (unfocused build).
Human Lorewarden Fighter (very confused PC and Player).
Assimar Paldadin(3)/Oracle of Lore(1). Pretty decent build and played okay.
Thoughts and suggestions.
I'm starting at 4th level with 6000gp to spend and a 25 pt stat buy.
Bard. Bards are arcane casters, their knowledge range is of use for the ruins you will be exploring, and your ability to buff players with Bardic Song will be quite useful. They also have a good number of skill points to play with. Eventually you'll be able to start up Bardic Song as a Move action... and then as a Swift action, so you'll still get to attack or the like. And you could focus on the crossbow or longbow (elvish bard!) and use ranged combat.
For a Ranged Bard, you'd want Dex and Cha as your high stats. You don't need bother with much (if any) Strength, and only need to boost your Int a little.
Archaeologist Bard gets trapfinding
But don't get Bardic Song. You'd be better off going one level of Rogue (or two for a Rogue Talent and going with auto-detect traps) rather than give up on the usefulness of Bardic Song.
But don't get Bardic Song. You'd be better off going one level of Rogue (or two for a Rogue Talent and going with auto-detect traps) rather than give up on the usefulness of Bardic Song.
Thanks for this.
I'm really beginning to lean heavily in the Bard direction. I would hate to slow my Bardic progression but i like the two levels of Rogue for the talent/evasion and a well placed grease with SA could add some damage. All in all the Inspire bonuses and versatility could really help this party out. I have a 1st level reach bard (Bard/Cavalier/Battle Herald is the plan) in PFS i was thinking of modifying for this group but a ranged Bard will help us since we are lacking any ranged options as is.
Depending on how permissive your GM is you might have a look at the Trapfinder trait from Mummy's Mask.
Bard.
'nuff said.
If you want to stay ranged SA makes less of an impact (and sense) as you will get more full attack actions then with melee anyways. And the levels of rogue will slow down your bard progression, be it spell casting, bardic performance, BAB etc.Arcane duelist might be an option here, too, though they loose the iconic knowledge and skill stuff.
Might wanna grab Arcane Strike as feat, too, to help with damage (and overcoming DR/magic in the early levels; AD gets it as bonus at lvl 2).
Ruyan.
Depending on how permissive your GM is you might have a look at the Trapfinder trait from Mummy's Mask.
Wow. That's a great find. I don't think it'll fly but it would stop the break in progression of Bard.
I'm also looking at, heaven's forbid, going Archery(Trapper)Ranger for 3 levels and then finish the rest of my progression as a Bard. This is still up in the air though. I would lose Evasion and the Rogue Talent with a slight decrease in skills per level but i get all Martial weapons for the Comp. Long Bow and better saves/BAB progression. Favored Terrain and Enemy go into Mountains and Giants for some added bonuses. Trapper gives me Trap finding as a Rogue so no loss. Endurance is nice as is the bonus combat feat.
Half-Elf
Ranger 1-3
Skill Focus(Perception)
1. PB Shot
CS. Precise Shot
3. Rapid Shot
R3. Endurance
Bard 4-?
5. Lingering Performance
Feats after this are undetermined as of yet.
STATS
STR= 14
DEX= 18(16+2)
CON= 13(Bump at 8th)
INT= 10
WIS= 10
CHA= 16(15+1 at 4th)
Bard spells
Saving Finale
Gravity Bow?
Grease
Timely Inspiration?
Liberating Command?
Vanish?
Expeditious Retreat?
Any other suggestions on spells. Looking for some buffs and control.
Item Thoughts? I have 6000gp to spend.
Wand of Cure Light Wounds.
Efficient Quiver.
Handy Haversack.
Cloak Of Resistance.
+1 Dark-wood Comp. Longbow STR Rate +2
This actually may be over budget.
I'd not look at the composite long bow too much--your damage will come from the static modifiers; from d6 to d8 is only 1 damage difference.
I agree on the other benefits of going ranger, though!
gravity bow is not on the bard's list; would be on the ranger's list, but than you need another level of this class.
Spells (among others) I've picked or will pick for my bard (AD/DD):
3rd—arcane concordance, confusion, good hope, haste, purging finale
2nd—cacophonous call, glitterdust, heroism, invisibility, mirror image, pyrotechnics
1st—cure light wounds, expeditious retreat, feather fall, feather step, grease, saving finale, solid note
Ruyan.
Yeah, i'm liking this lay out. Gravity Bow must have been stuck in my head from building this guy as a Seeker Sorcerer/Bard.
Q. Human could net me the extra feat so i could go with PB Shot and Precise at 1st. Rapid from Archery CS and then go with Arcane strike with my 3rd level feat. This moves Lingering Performance to 5th. Good idea?
Otherwise i stick with Half-Elf and go Skill Focus- Perception(Free) and PB Shot at first. Precise Shot with the Archery style. Arcane Strike at 3rd pushing Rapid to 5th and Lingering to 7th. Do i need/want lingering that late?
The Ranger 3/ Bard combo gives me some diversity even though it delays the Bard progression.
So my GM just gave me the Okay on using the Trapfinder trait. Looks like i'll just go for a straight Bard this way i get a 2nd level spell. I'll probably go human for the extra feat and extra spell known from favored class.
Thanks for all the advice.
If your GM allows the races from the Advanced Race book, several of the featured races (including Catfolk, Dhampirs, and Fetchlings) include a +2 to Dexterity and +2 to Charisma. Among the Uncommon Races, the Kitsune and Vishkanya also have that benefit.
At 4th level you could have a Dex and Cha of 18 for 17 points, and still have 8 more points to spread among the remaining four stats (Maybe Int 12, Con 14, Str 12 or 11, and Wis 9 or 10), prior to the -2 to one stat depending on the race).
If your GM allows the races from the Advanced Race book, several of the featured races (including Catfolk, Dhampirs, and Fetchlings) include a +2 to Dexterity and +2 to Charisma. Among the Uncommon Races, the Kitsune and Vishkanya also have that benefit.
At 4th level you could have a Dex and Cha of 18 for 17 points, and still have 8 more points to spread among the remaining four stats (Maybe Int 12, Con 14, Str 12 or 11, and Wis 9 or 10), prior to the -2 to one stat depending on the race).
Alas he wants to keep this to core only. He allowed one of the Player's an Aasimar but that was special. I could go with one also but i'm not particularly fond of the race. For some reason i just dig the core group best. Playing a Birdman or Tiefling down the road could be fun though.
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I just wanted to start by saying THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP.
Here is the almost final build. As far as the Trapfinder trait went i decided to add some versatility with the Ranger MC.
Loiza Zindelo
Male Human (Varisian) Bard 3/Ranger (Freebooter, Trapper) 1
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +7
Aura freebooter's bane (1 ft.)
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +4 Dex)
hp 28 (1d10+3d8+4)
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +3; +4 vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependant effects
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee kukri +5 (1d4+2/18-20/×2) and
. . masterwork scimitar +6 (1d6+2/18-20/×2) and
. . unarmed strike +5 (1d3+2/×2)
Ranged darkwood composite longbow +8 (1d8+2/×3)
Special Attacks bardic performance, bardic performance: countersong, bardic performance: distraction, bardic performance: fascinate, bardic performance: inspire competence, bardic performance: inspire courage
Bard Spells Known (CL 3rd; concentration +5):
1st (4/day)—saving finale (DC 13), silent image (DC 13), grease (DC 13), feather fall (DC 13)
0 (at will)—detect magic, mage hand, mending, dancing lights, read magic, ghost sound (DC 12), prestidigitation (DC 12), message
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +3; CMB +5; CMD 19
Feats Arcane Strike, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Traits favored son/daughter - ameiko kaijitsu, maestro of the society
Skills Acrobatics +8, Climb +6, Disable Device +11, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (engineering) +2, Knowledge (geography) +6, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (local) +7, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (nobility) +2, Knowledge (planes) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Linguistics +8, Perception +7 (+8 to locate traps), Perform (comedy) +7, Perform (oratory) +9, Spellcraft +6, Stealth +8, Survival +4 (+5 to track, +6 to avoid becoming lost), Swim +6, Use Magic Device +9
Languages Abyssal, Common, Giant, Infernal, Shoanti, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ bardic knowledge, track, trapfinding +1, versatile performance abilities (oratory), well versed, wild empathy
Combat Gear Wand of cure light wounds, Sunrod (3), Weapon blanch (adamantine), Weapon blanch (silver) (5); Other Gear +1 Studded leather armor, Cold Iron Arrow, durable (50), Cold Iron Blunt arrows (50), Darkwood Composite longbow (Str +2), Kukri, Masterwork Scimitar, Silver Arrow, durable (50), Efficient quiver (151 @ 23 lbs), Ioun stone (dull grey), Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs), Adventurer's sash (23 @ 15.5 lbs), Backpack, masterwork (9 @ 18.5 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (empty), Flint and steel, Grappling arrow, Ink, black, Inkpen, Journal, Mess kit, Mirror, Musical instrument (Tin Whistle), Patchwork cloak, Pocketed scarf, Silk rope, Soap, Spell component pouch, Thieves' tools, masterwork, Tindertwig (5), Torch (3), Trail rations (5), Waterproof bag (3 @ 1 lbs), Waterskin, Wrist sheath, spring loaded (1 @ 0 lbs), Wrist sheath, spring loaded (1 @ 3 lbs), 249 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bardic Performance (standard action) (13 rounds/day) - 0/13
Cold Iron Arrow, durable - 0/50
Cold Iron Blunt arrows - 0/50
Read Magic (10 minutes) (1/day) - 0/1
Silver Arrow, durable - 0/50
Sunrod - 0/3
Tindertwig - 0/5
Torch - 0/3
Trail rations - 0/5
Wand of cure light wounds - 0/50
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex) Add +1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action) (13 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (1 targets) (DC 13) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +2 (Su) +2 competence bonus for one ally on a skill check.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Favored Son/Daughter - Ameiko Kaijitsu +1 Knowledge (Local) and it is a class skill.
Freebooter's Bane +1 (Ex) +1 to hit & damage vs. chosen target.
Ioun stone (dull grey) These are ioun stones that have been burned out or otherwise rendered all but powerless. They retain the ability to float and orbit, and are useful as the target of spells such as continual flame, daylight, and silence, allowing you to keep your hands free. They may be any shape (cabochon, disk, ellipsoid, and so on) or any condition (cracked, flawed, or whole).
Ioun stones orbit the head within d3 feet and have AC 24, hardness 5, and 10 Hp.
Resonant Power:
Read magic 1/day for 10 minutes.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be 12th level; Cost 12 gp, 5 sp
Maestro of the Society +3 rounds of Bardic Performance a day.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Track +1 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Versatile Performance (Oratory) +9 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Oratory skill for Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks
Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs) A small magical device patterned off ancient relics of the Azlanti, a wayfinder is typically made from silver and bears gold accents. With a command word, you can use a wayfinder to shine (as the light spell). The wayfinder also acts as a nonmagical (magnetic) compass, granting you a +2 circumstance bonus on Survival checks to avoid becoming lost. All wayfinders include a small indentation designed to hold a single ioun stone. An ioun stone slotted in this manner grants you its normal benefits (as if it were orbiting your head), but frequently reveals entirely new powers due to the magic of the wayfinder itself (see Seeker of Secrets page 51).
Note: This item costs only 250 gp for members of the Pathfinder Society
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, light; Cost 250 gp
Well Versed (Ex) +4 save vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
Wild Empathy +3 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
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Any further thoughts would be nice otherwise i think he may be a finished product. I'm just unsure if this is a solid enough build. I'm not that skilled at partial casters.
Toying with the idea of Arcane Duelist but i'm not sure i like losing the things that make the Bard cool (skill monkey/Knowledge stuff).
As far as Progression goes i'll be taking another level of Ranger i just haven't decided when. I'm leaning towards my next level going into Bard for 2nd level spells and then Ranger @6th for my 2nd Ranger level.
Featwise, once i hit 5th i'll grab Lingering Performance and the when i go Ranger 2 i'll get Rapid or Manyshot with Archery Style.
To me the question is whether you really need Lingering Performance at all. While I know what the feat does, I've never really seen it in play.
In my experience I've never run out of rounds/day with my performances.
It would also be important to consider the interaction with the http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m4pb?Lingering-Performance-and-Finale-Spells#1 "final" spells.
Nice buildt, btw, I like it.
Ruyan.