If there is the luxury of time, that is a truth. If there is little time, it is still worth the while. If there is no time, almost any clear chain of command is better than none.
One of the advantages of a multi defence force I proposed for something like blockade busters is it gives you a cross settlement force with an established command structure
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I think that there are two different things being discussed.
One is a metagame organization based on "Don't let people ruin PFO"
The other is an ingame organization based on "Don't let someone steamroll all of us and make us all play Fantasy EVE"
I think that it would be best to handle those two things separately.
I think that there are two different things being discussed.
One is a metagame organization based on "Don't let people ruin PFO"
The other is an ingame organization based on "Don't let someone steamroll all of us and make us all play Fantasy EVE"
I think that it would be best to handle those two things separately.
You will never get agreement on the second. I am pretty sure that there are people who think my group would ruin PfO. Others that don't. As far as I am concerned we are (should we come here to play all four parts of the game but we emphasise the building and domination part because that leads us to provide crafting gathering and adventure parts to our members)
No idea whether your group really would ruin PFO, but I know I'd like for us to be ready for your outfit if you show.
I would also like for you to be ready. In one of the many pm conversations I have had with members of this forum I have indeed pointed out that one of the things we are looking for is competition. An easy win is no fun.
There is no advantage to us in discussing tactics we would use.
There is no advantage to us in revealing how vulnerable others are to infiltration
There is no advantage to us in the suggestions I have posted in this thread
There is no advantage to us in suggestion I have posted about mechanics such as when I posted a synopsis of how I felt restricting the PVP window for maximum DI would actually advantage groups like mine.
(While I am a figure of dislike for certain portions of these forums I really do not care about that but I have at least tried to prepare you for groups like mine even if we do not eventually come)
Goblin Squad Member
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@ Steelwing
While I will never play in your fashion, and disagree with some of the things you want in the game, I highly value your input on these forums and see that you pose intelligent arguments/statements based on your experiences in your play style.
Without your input over these past few weeks, I don't think many of the issues raised would have had as pervasive a viewpoint given as we need. We need your views and experience as a community even if just as the opposing view to a lot of us.
I hope that you do continue to state your views and I even hope that you and your armada? fleet? guild? come to PFO. We need all kinds and the more the merrier. I think out of everyone we have heard from at this point your group poses the largest threat and is therefore, in my mind, the greatest content the game will have for us to combat, that is, until a bigger fish comes along or we grow into one ourselves.
I'm looking forward to playing with and against you!
@ Steelwing
While I will never play in your fashion, and disagree with some of the things you want in the game, I highly value your input on these forums and see that you pose intelligent arguments/statements based on your experiences in your play style.
Without your input over these past few weeks, I don't think many of the issues raised would have had as pervasive a viewpoint given as we need. We need your views and experience as a community even if just as the opposing view to a lot of us.
I hope that you do continue to state your views and I even hope that you and your armada? fleet? guild? come to PFO. We need all kinds and the more the merrier. I think out of everyone we have heard from at this point your group poses the largest threat and is therefore, in my mind, the greatest content the game will have for us to combat, that is, until a bigger fish comes along or we grow into one ourselves.
I'm looking forward to playing with and against you!
Thank you for the welcome Wexel. I think currently our chance of coming is only 50/50 however if we do not come I am pretty sure another group like us will come. In the meantime until we decide I will continue to post in the knowledge that some will not discard what I say merely because they dislike the messenger.
Well, even if your group doesn't come, maybe you and the family will grab accounts and give us a run for our money! And you're welcome.
The group is a democracy and most (75%+) have been together for a long long time (5 years+) when looking at a sandbox it is likely we will take a vote and all move or none move. Doing anything else splits our resources over two games. This is why I won't even take PfO to them till nearly OE. I can't ask them to swap to a game to undefined. When I goto them with PfO I will be expected to provide a good case for them to consider it
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, even if your group doesn't come, maybe you and the family will grab accounts and give us a run for our money! And you're welcome.The group is a democracy and most (75%+) have been together for a long long time (5 years+) when looking at a sandbox it is likely we will take a vote and all move or none move. Doing anything else splits our resources over two games. This is why I won't even take PfO to them till nearly OE. I can't ask them to swap to a game to undefined. When I goto them with PfO I will be expected to provide a good case for them to consider it
I do hope that it is a game they will want to play and it wins them away from EVE. Given the forums general stance against you, I wouldn't think that has helped much but you seem to have taken it in stride and it has not effected you in the least. With that being the case, Hopefully the game is robust enough at that point to merit their full attention and it will capture their hearts and minds.
I do hope that it is a game they will want to play and it wins them away from EVE. Given the forums general stance against you, I wouldn't think that has helped much but you seem to have taken it in stride and it has not effected you in the least. With that being the case, Hopefully the game is robust enough at that point to merit their full attention and it will capture their hearts and minds.Well, even if your group doesn't come, maybe you and the family will grab accounts and give us a run for our money! And you're welcome.The group is a democracy and most (75%+) have been together for a long long time (5 years+) when looking at a sandbox it is likely we will take a vote and all move or none move. Doing anything else splits our resources over two games. This is why I won't even take PfO to them till nearly OE. I can't ask them to swap to a game to undefined. When I goto them with PfO I will be expected to provide a good case for them to consider it
One of my many personality flaws is the harder you hit me the harder I come back :) Generally they leave me to it unless I get someone pulling me up for rudeness in which case I generally ask for a review knowing I can get a little passionate. So far they have only asked me to change my stance twice. They generally know I thrive in a high octane style environment though so leave me to it and trust me to defer to them if I am unsure of my ground
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Goblin Squad Member
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One of my many personality flaws is the harder you hit me the harder I come back :) Generally they leave me to it unless I get someone pulling me up for rudeness in which case I generally ask for a review knowing I can get a little passionate. So far they have only asked me to change my stance twice. They generally know I thrive in a high octane style environment though so leave me to it and trust me to defer to them if I am unsure of my ground
At least you know your flaws, most don't or choose to see them as merits. Being passionate is good and gives us late night forum stalkers something to talk about ;).
Well,as you hit back harder, I intend to hit you hard in game, if we can manage to make PFO interesting enough to have you pitch it and get results.
One of my many personality flaws is the harder you hit me the harder I come back :) Generally they leave me to it unless I get someone pulling me up for rudeness in which case I generally ask for a review knowing I can get a little passionate. So far they have only asked me to change my stance twice. They generally know I thrive in a high octane style environment though so leave me to it and trust me to defer to them if I am unsure of my ground
At least you know your flaws, most don't or choose to see them as merits. Being passionate is good and gives us late night forum stalkers something to talk about ;).
Well,as you hit back harder, I intend to hit you hard in game, if we can manage to make PFO interesting enough to have you pitch it and get results.
We are all content :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your loose alliance will have several of these after a while. If you want some tips for early ones I would look to Arturus Reno of Pax for a start who is an established one. (though this is beside the point I am trying to make)
You are more than competent at gathering easily accessed information that most tend to miss. I applaud that sincerely.
Also yes, Art has a good deal of experience with leading large forces, and when he voiced an interest in PFO we were quick to put him in a place where his skills could be used for full advantage.
Your loose alliance will have several of these after a while. If you want some tips for early ones I would look to Arturus Reno of Pax for a start who is an established one. (though this is beside the point I am trying to make)You are more than competent at gathering easily accessed information that most tend to miss. I applaud that sincerely.
Also yes, Art has a good deal of experience with leading large forces, and when he voiced an interest in PFO we were quick to put him in a place where his skills could be used for full advantage.
It wasnt meant to be a dig at you by any means mr George. You know I have been on your website and your member list is open and of course I took note of names that seemed familiar and cross checked them. Reno is a damn good fleet commander though I have only opposed him once I have heard good things from others as well. The guy is no pushover and I fully welcome the competition.
Also glad to see you are talking to the guys from Storm even if I got confused at first not knowing they had changed CEO.
You wonder why I drop these info items?....frankly I am trying to shock people into thinking about some info sec. If we decide to come and play we want some hard targets. Pax is in many ways a harder info target than most...at least you have some forum security....some groups it was just a case of finding their teamspeak details and using the name of a member who was largely inactive and asking for permission...not looking at anyone for that naturally :)
Ah my apologies for sharing then :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ah my apologies for sharing then :)
I think we are misunderstanding each other. Sharing it was fine, if we didn't want it shared we would have it up a couple steps in the accessible ladder. Not a bullet proof solution, but in this case the doors are open (and for a reason).
The applause was genuine
But now we have derailed this thread for a couple of posts, so I will just hope we are tracking :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think people need to remeber what this thread really was about (as mentioned earlier).
This is not some proposed alliance to protect all the little guys from everyone, or some alliance to keep the big boys in power. This is not some tool against anyone who would seek power.
This is simply a proposed last measure against any kind of group seeking to exploit or abuse the game in ways that GW has expressed a dislike for. Any group seeking to ruin the game and the game world simply because they can. That is at least what I seek to discuss.
Many people seem to have misunderstood the intent here.
For all the other cases there are and will be normal alliances. This is no Good vs Evil. This is PFO vs Malicious-Goons.
Groups like Steelwing's will only serve as game content in my eyes, and they are more than welcome to this game. All I can hope for is that they at least roll an alignment that fits their playstyle (if GW makes it viable to actually be evil). Not much point to the alignments at all if they are going to force everyone to pretend to be good. But enough derailment.
Neither am I saying that everyone joining the game past-EE or past-OE will automatically belong to this THEM group, but perhaps...just perhaps one group will come. Perhaps one group comes along to ruin this game because they hate it for crushing EVE*, Darkfall, Mortal Online out of business (*fictional scenario). Just maybe they do nothing but suicide run on every small settlement around (or some other dispicable tactic). Maybe they are cheating. Maybe they use hacking as a tool. I have no idea.
We should at least have someone willing to stand up against such a malicious force in-game as well as out. As long as some of us can agree on that we should be fine.
And as for the discussion about leaders...well lets look at it like a PfO United Nations.
If the need should arise for them...let them each attack separately.
If they take turns attacking they should not each have to spend the cost of war for a long time. But in return the enemy would in this case be in war the entire duration. Effectively stripping them bare.
This is of course if each force alone is enough to oppose them.
This way you eliminate the need for one joint commander. Just decide who takes what turn in crushing them to dust. After a while they woul hopefully grow tired and look for another game to plague.
This is all a large pile of perhaps' and maybe's, but I don't see the harm in talking about it and perhaps at least taking note of who at this time would be interested in showing support for this kind of idea.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Once the back of the enemy is broken then perhaps queuing up to keep them down would be a good strategy, but until their back is broken we should not let them fragment us or we will be beaten one at a time.
Also recommend we try and avoid using 'goons' as the descriptor. Too much baggage goes along with that name. 'organized game-breakers' maybe.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is simply a proposed last measure against any kind of group seeking to exploit or abuse the game in ways that GW has expressed a dislike for. Any group seeking to ruin the game and the game world simply because they can. That is at least what I seek to discuss.
Many people seem to have misunderstood the intent here.
Any misunderstanding may be caused by the presentation. Is this an "Us" against "Them" simply because we are here first" and they come after? We can not discuss exploitation or abuse, unless it happens. If it does happen, it will likely not be isolated to just OE groups.
Once the back of the enemy is broken then perhaps queuing up to keep them down would be a good strategy, but until their back is broken we should not let them fragment us or we will be beaten one at a time.
..... "Organized Game Breakers".
I'm wondering whom is breaking the "game"?
* Have what you hold
* Using the systems to their mechanical advantages
* Superior numbers represents majority
* Majority will create the culture
The focus of this confederation should be, not to treat non Griefers as game breakers, but as individuals or groups that can be brought into the fold or dealt with as any other adversary.
What this confederation runs the risk of is drawing the OE groups into even larger alliances, and shear numbers difference between EE and OE will guarantee their victory.
It will also turn PFO into a comparable Fantasy Skinned EvE Null Sec SOV Alliance Warfare MMO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I do guess this is something that should be re-evaluated once the feared situation actually starts showing signs of happening.
All we can do until then is try to make this game as good as we can. If the community is solid and united (in fashion that we like to kill each other and would like to keep doing that), any obstacles to that goal will be faced with great opposition This I have no fear of.
Truck on.