| master_marshmallow |
I want to throw a Dragon at my players, and I want to raise its CR. But, if I were to raise its CR by the advancement table it would become too powerful for my players, so I am considering giving it a class level or two for added saves, HP, spells, etc. If I give a dragon a level of sorcerer would it advance its sorcerer CL or would it have two separate CLs and separate lists of spells known to use those spell slots for? Also, would he gain Bloodline abilities or would it be assumed that he has the Draconic Bloodline and he would not gain any class abilities and adding sorcerer levels simply adds to his existing CL and spells?
| Rynjin |
I'm like 90% sure dragons are already assumed to have Sorcerer levels as far as casting goes, so their spells known are ACTUALLY Sorcerer caster levels (so they stack).
I believe you could pick a Bloodline once you give him actual levels. So it'd end up as something odd (I think) where he could be a level 9 Sorcerer for the purpose of casting, but only level 2 for Bloodline and such.
But I believe generally a Dragon is assumed to have the Draconic Bloodline barring outside circumstances ("Oh he's a super Frost dragon, he has the Boreal Bloodline").
Lessee...here are rules here (scroll down to "Adding Class Levels) that may prove me wrong or right.
And...yeah.
Next, add the class levels to the monster, making all of the necessary additions to its HD, hit points, BAB, CMB, CMD, feats, skills, spells, and class features. If the creature possesses class features (such as spellcasting or sneak attack) for the class that is being added, these abilities stack. This functions just like adding class levels to a character without racial Hit Dice.
So stuff stacks, but otherwise you get class features at their normal level.
It also adjusts their stats slightly ("Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities. ").
Since dragons have a caster role normally, and already have Sorcerer levels, each level of a class adds +1 CR.
| MurphysParadox |
It would advance the sorcerer spell casting only. So it would be a level 2 (for example) sorcerer casting as a level HD+2 sorcerer. So the Caster Level goes up, as does the spell casting progression.
Strictly speaking, it can be any bloodline, but it would still only be a level 2 sorcerer in that bloodline. You could argue that if it is a draconic bloodline, then the bloodline level is the HD+2 total value. But that isn't exactly set in the rules.
| Bizbag |
The caster levels stack. If the dragon cast spells as a level 7 sorcerer before, she gains SPD and spells known as a level 8 sorcerer. However, she gains class abilities as a level 1 sorcerer: Eschew Materials, +2 Will save, and a bloodline. It does not have to be a Draconic bloodline; Arcane is probably most appropriate as a default. He has the level 1 bloodline abilities, not level 8.
The dragon may not exchange a spell known. That is a feature of sorcerer class levels, and she is a level 1 sorcerer, not a level 8 one.
| Bizbag |
Don't forget, maximum hit points on first die and favored class bonus.
Favored class, yes. Max HP, no. That only applies to PCs, and even then, only at character level 1. This dragon has racial HD that it would get a max result on, if it was entitled to it.
Note, for example, that the Bestiary orc is a level 1 warrior with 6 hp, not 11.
| master_marshmallow |
RJGrady wrote:Don't forget, maximum hit points on first die and favored class bonus.Favored class, yes. Max HP, no. That only applies to PCs, and even then, only at character level 1. This dragon has racial HD that it would get a max result on, if it was entitled to it.
Note, for example, that the Bestiary orc is a level 1 warrior with 6 hp, not 11.
Actually I just read the section, and any NPC or PC that takes a class appropriate for a PC gets full HP at 1st level, NPC classes such as the warrior you cited, as well as commoners, experts, adepts etc all only get half, as well as racial hit die progressions.
| RJGrady |
RJGrady wrote:Don't forget, maximum hit points on first die and favored class bonus.Favored class, yes. Max HP, no. That only applies to PCs, and even then, only at character level 1. This dragon has racial HD that it would get a max result on, if it was entitled to it.
Note, for example, that the Bestiary orc is a level 1 warrior with 6 hp, not 11.
From the universal monster rules:
hp: The creature's hit points, followed by its Hit Dice (including modifiers from Constitution, favored class levels, creature type modifiers, and the Toughness feat). Creatures with PC class levels receive maximum hit points for their first HD, but all other HD rolls are assumed to be average. Fast healing and regeneration values, if any, follow the creature's HD.