Dawnflower Paladin

[Uncle Taco]

HI all, I've been trying to build a oradin of Sarenrae out for an upcoming Jade Regent campaign.

The concept: I wanted to making a dervish dancing paladin of Sarenrae, one who firmly believes he doesn't have to compromise the grace of his goddess for the sake of wearing heavier armor and using a weapon not called a scimitar. I'm also very partial to him doing non-lethal damage as a rule, as I see him hoping to redeem those who have strayed from the light.

Dawnflower Dervish Bard 1/ (Holy Light) Paladin 4/ Life Oracle 2/ Holy Vindicator 4

STR: 13
DEX: 18 (+1 and lvls 8 and 12)
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 15 (+1 at lvl 4)

Traits
Blade of Mercy
Best Customer (campaign trait)

Feat Progression

H. Enforcer
1. Quick Draw
3. power attack
5. Alignment Channel [Chaos (I just have this feeling there will be lots of bandits)]
7. Extra Revelation (Oracle Channel)
9. ??
11. ??

I don't know what this character will do at range. I also don't like dipping bard first, but it saves me two feats. Any advice on how to make this dex-based Paladin work would be appreciated.

[XMorsX]

Dip two lvls in MoMS Monk and maybe one lvl in Unarmed Fighter (you can avoid the later by taking Dodge as a normal feat) in order to take Crane Style, Crane Wing and Crane Riposte. Why Quick Draw? Take Fey Foundling instead. With the monk dip though and the dervish dance fighting style, I cannot really suggest going into Holy Vindicator though. HV works better with a falcata and a quickdraw shield.

[Kazaan]

Why does Alignment Channel(Chaos) have anything to do with bandits? Unless those bandits are of the interdimensional sort, it won't benefit you much.

Alignment Channel wrote:

Benefit: Instead of its normal effect, you can choose to have your ability to channel energy heal or harm outsiders of the chosen alignment subtype. You must make this choice each time you channel energy. If you choose to heal or harm creatures of the chosen alignment subtype, your channel energy has no effect on other creatures. The amount of damage healed or dealt and the DC to halve the damage is otherwise unchanged.

Alignment Channel(Chaos) will only have an effect against Outsiders that have the Chaos subtype. It won't affect Outsiders who lack that subtype, even if they happen to be of a Chaotic alignment. Normally, when you channel, you select either Living or Undead to be affected. Mechanically, what AC does is give you an additional "target option", Outsider(Subtype) for which you decide on the spot whether you're healing them or harming them; unlike normal channeling where whether it heals or harms depends on what type of energy it is and what your target is.

Thematically speaking, you're no longer really channeling positive or negative energy; you're applying those principals to channel the natural essence of the outsiders you have targeted. Channel their essence away from them and it harms them or channel more essence into them and it heals them.

[Uncle Taco]

@XmorsX: If I take the quick draw feat along with a quick draw shield, I can draw the shield as a free action instead of a swift action while moving and take advantage of the Holy Vindicator's shield ability for a hefty AC bonus later. My round will begin with putting the shield away, do my dervish dancing with a keen scimitar, then donning the shield again.

@Kazaan: Moment of truth, I never really looked at the feat. I saw it as a prereq for Holy Vindicator and made an assumption. So yeah, I should probably talk to my GM about expectations and see if Alignment or Elemental would be the better choice.

[Gwen Smith]

If you're concerned about ranged support, you might look at the Divine Hunter Paladin archetype. (I'm not sure what parts of the Holy Light are critical to your character build, so it might not work out.)

Divine Hunter gives you Precise Shot as a bonus feat at first level, and at 3rd level when you hit a foe with a ranged weapon, all your allies get the benefit of Precise Shot against that foe. It's very situational, but you might be able to use a thrown weapon to help the spellcasters use their rays and other ranged touch attacks.

[Jubal Breakbottle]

Shared a campaign with a cool character with a similar concept.

[Uncle Taco]

@Gwen: Mostly the party buff nimbus. I've given divine hunter a lot of thought though I'm only taking 4 levels of paladin as the build stands now.

@Jobal: That is a cool character but oath of vengeance isn't a really good fit for a vindicator (you give up channel, which is essential). He also took Piranha strike at level 1 which doesn't normally work with a scimitar. But thanks for the link!

[Imbicatus]

Personally, I really hate the concept of your build. Using quick draw cheese to use Dervish Dance which requires a free hand to combine a shield goes against the flavor of Dawnflower Dervishes. Most GMs I have played with would use either a) GM discretion to limit free actions for quick-drawing a shield, or b. not allow you to use dervish dance on any round where you used a shield the previous round.

TLDR: Expect table variation.

[Fax Malchaera -]

Jubal Breakbottle wrote:

Shared a campaign with a cool character with a similar concept.

Very nice.

I'm working on something very similar except I took flagbearer first. I couldn't take a 10 Str...at level 2 even in just a MW chain shirt and generic equipment, I was encumbered. It also lets me take PA (at level 5)

Merciful Blade Trait and Enforcer works very well, which I will take at lvl 3. It also works well with a cruel blade...but not very flavorful.

Bard Spell selection requires liberating command...with a low str, you'll have a poor CMB and may never escape a grapple...high dex and some points in escape artist, atleast give you a chance.

Also, a clear spindle really does little when your will saves are so high.

To the OP, you can dump wisdom and stack Charisma...you'll get way more mileage across the board. Definitely need improved crit at 9 or 11 depending on your BAB when you hit +8.

Why life oracle? Why HV?

Only at level 2 so far...all society play.

Fax Malchaera
Male Ifrit Bard 1/Paladin 1
LG medium humanoid
Init +4 Senses Darkvision (60) Listen -3 Spot -3
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 14
hp 16
Fort 2 ,Ref 6 ,Will 1
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft
Melee Masterwork Iron, Cold Scimitar +6 (1d6+4/18-20/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Longbow, composite (+1) +6 (1d8+1/x3)
Special Attacks Smite Evil
Space 5 Reach 5
STATISTICS
STR 13 DEX 18 CON 11 INT 10 WIS 5 CHA 18
Base Atk 1 Grp20
Feats Flagbearer
Skills Acrobatics +7, Diplomacy +8, Escape Artist +8, Intimidate +9, Use Magic Device +8, Acrobatics +7, Diplomacy +8, Escape Artist +8, Intimidate +9
Languages Common, Ignan
Gear Masterwork Iron - Cold Scimitar, Masterwork Longbow - composite (+1), Scimitar, Longspear, Arrow - Flight (20), Backpack - masterwork , Whetstone, Weapon cord, Air crystals, Alkali flask (2), Holy Water (flask), Wand of Cure Light Wounds

lvl 3 - Enforcer
lvl 5 - Power Attack
lvl 7 - Selective channel (probably)or Greater Mercy
lvl 9 - Improved Crit (probably) or Ultimate Mercy
lvl 11 - Discordant Voice (assuming this works on the group)or retrain whatever I have here for Channeled Revival at lvl 12.

[Uncle Taco]

@Fax: So there's a really cool build that lets you be an effective healer and melee combatant, its called the Oradin. The way the GM is making the party he's looking for a fighter/paladin, wizard, cleric, and a fourth that pretty much is dependant on how much he likes the flavor (so all other classes are in contention for this). The way I see it, and the way the build works, at the low low price of 1 BAB a Paladin can become the party healer using the life link ability from the Life mystery (which coincidentally is thematic with worship of Sarenrae). Here's an excerpt

Life Link:

Life Link (Su): As a standard action, you may create a bond between yourself and another creature. Each round at the start of your turn, if the bonded creature is wounded for 5 or more hit points below its maximum hit points, it heals 5 hit points and you take 5 hit points of damage. You may have one bond active per oracle level. This bond continues until the bonded creature dies, you die, the distance between you and the other creature exceeds medium range, or you end it as an immediate action (if you have multiple bonds active, you may end as many as you want as part of the same immediate action).

Three levels of oracle give me 3 life-links, which will cover all of the other PCs, or at least 3 PCs or NPCs as they need it.

As for HV honestly I just like it. Its a full BAB prestige class that keeps channeling progression for whatever class you go into it with. You can also give it the caster levels of one class and the channel levels of another. So a level 12 build as I've made it will cast as a 5th level Oracle and channel as an 9th level Paladin. This is great for the vindicator's shield ability because for every die of channel energy you possess you can add +1 to your AC when the ability is activated. Hence the want of a quick draw shield. Also I imagine the stigmata ability manifesting as burning wounds as opposed to bleeding to keep in line with Sarenrae being a flame goddess.

So I've re-jiggered the build around and decided to drop a level of oracle. The new build looks like this at 12. Ignore items for now. I'm only going to take 2 levels of oracle, to have more channels toward the end.

Crunch:

Saif al-Fajr
Male Human (Keleshite) Bard 1/Holy Vindicator 5/Oracle 2/Paladin (Warrior of the Holy Light) 4
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses oracle's curses (clouded vision), darkvision 30 ft.; Perception +8
Aura power of light
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 15, flat-footed 17 (+7 armor, +5 Dex)
hp 126 (9d10+3d8+12)
Fort +11, Ref +13, Will +15
Defensive Abilities vindicator's shield; Immune disease, fear
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 keen adamantine scimitar +9/+4 (1d6+8/15-20/×2)
Ranged composite longbow +15/+10 (1d8+1/×3)
Special Attacks bardic performance, bardic performance: countersong, bardic performance: distraction, bardic performance: fascinate, bardic performance: inspire courage, Channel Energy 1d6, Channel Energy 5d6, smite evil
Spell-Like Abilities
. . At will—detect evil
Bard Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +4):
Oracle Spells Known (CL 5th; concentration +8):
2nd (5/day)—cure moderate wounds
1st (7/day)—detect undead, cure light wounds
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 13, Dex 21, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +10; CMB +8; CMD 26
Feats Alignment Channel, Channel Smite, Cleave, Enforcer, Extra Revelation, Power Attack, Quick Draw
Traits best customer, blade of mercy
Skills Acrobatics +9, Diplomacy +11, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +2, Knowledge (geography) +6, Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (nobility) +6, Knowledge (planes) +2, Knowledge (religion) +10, Perception +8, Perform (dance) +8, Sense Motive +4, Survival +6
Languages Common, Elven, Kelish
SQ aura of courage, aura of good, bardic knowledge, bloodfire, divine wrath, faith healing, lay on hands, mercies (mercy [sickened]), mysteries (life), revelations (life link [2 bonds, 120'], oracle channel positive energy []), stigmata: ac, stigmata: attack rolls, stigmata: caster level checks, stigmata: saving throws, stigmata: weapon damage
Other Gear +1 Mithral Breastplate, +1 Keen Adamantine Scimitar, Arrows (20), Blunt arrows (20), Longbow, Comp. (Str +1), Belt of incredible dexterity +2, Boots of speed (10 rounds/day), Backpack (25 @ 414.92 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (empty), Flint and steel, Holy symbol, wooden (Sarenrae), Holy text (The Birth of Light and Truth), Mess kit, Pot, Rope, Soap, Torch (10), Trail rations (5), Waterskin, 18771 GP

Feat progression looks like this.

lvl 1 - Enforcer, Alignment Channel
lvl 3 - Power Attack
lvl 5 - Quick Draw
lvl 7 - Extra Revelation (for life oracle channel)
lvl 9 - Cleave or Weapon Focus
lvl 11 - Cleaving Finish or Dazzling Display

Lastly, after racial modifiers, no stats are allowed to go below 10. This game will be heavy on the RP side anyways so I'm not too worried about dumping a stat.

@Imbicatus: I think that's pretty harsh to say you hate my build concept; especially since my build encompasses more than just using a scimitar with a shield. I also respectfully disagree on the flavor. I think its quite flavorful for a dervish to learn how to juggle more than just her sword while dancing. I think it's downright impressive actually. I'd be right there with you if I were doing something crazier like switching out a greatsword with my shield as a free action, but the quick draw shield was given that clause with the quick draw feat just for situations like this, I believe. So I just don't believe my "cheese" is at all unrealistic. However this, like all things, is up for GM review and I will show him the build after I've finalized it for approval. If you are that bothered by it though this probably isn't your thread.