Lots of Whip questions

[ChainsawSam]

1.

The Whip is a one handed exotic weapon with the Disarm, Reach, nonlethal, and Trip qualities.

The Scorpion Whip is a light exotic weapon with the Performance quality. In addition: "If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip."

Questions: Does this allow the Scorpion Whip to have the Disarm, and Trip special abilities?

Does this allow someone proficient with the Whip to use a Scorpion Whip without specific Scorpion Whip proficiency (similar to a nonproficient user wielding a Bastard Sword two handed)?

Is it possible to use the Scorpion Whip as a light weapon with all the bells and whistles of a Whip?

2.

The later half of the Serpent Lash feat states the following:

Quote:

In addition, you can use your whip to perform reposition maneuvers, though you take a –4 penalty on your CMB and you may only move the target toward you from its original position.

I found a snippet from SKR on the Paizo Blog (source)which states the following:

Quote:

There is a special exception to the above rules. If you’re using a weapon with the trip special feature, and you’re attempting a drag or reposition combat maneuver (Advanced Player’s Guide 321–322), you may apply the weapon’s bonuses to the roll because trip weapons are also suitable for dragging and repositioning (this also means we don’t have to add “drag” and “reposition” weapon properties to existing weapons).

Question: If a weapon with the Trip quality, such as the Whip, is already suited for the Drag and Reposition maneuvers, am I correct in thinking that the quoted potion of the Serpent Lash feat has become obsolete?

My current assumption from all of this is that I should be able to take the Whip proficiency and then use the Scorpion Whip as a light weapon with the Trip and Disarm features, apply the Whip specific feats to it, and Reposition willy-nilly despite my lack of the Serpent Lash feat.

Am I correct in my assumptions? Everything is a little murky, so if anyone has any other quotes or citations I'd appreciate that as well.

[Davick]

I was pretty sure scorpion whip proficiency let you use a whip, not the other way around. In any case, a scorpion whip has the features noted on the chart and no others (I believe there is a dev post about this somewhere), just like the regular whip. But you should still be able to apply whip related feats to it.

[ChainsawSam]

Davick wrote:

I was pretty sure scorpion whip proficiency let you use a whip, not the other way around. In any case, a scorpion whip has the features noted on the chart and no others (I believe there is a dev post about this somewhere), just like the regular whip. But you should still be able to apply whip related feats to it.

Ultimate Equipment states:

Quote:

Scorpion Whip:

This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

PFSRD link

[Davick]

ChainsawSam wrote:

Davick wrote:

I was pretty sure scorpion whip proficiency let you use a whip, not the other way around. In any case, a scorpion whip has the features noted on the chart and no others (I believe there is a dev post about this somewhere), just like the regular whip. But you should still be able to apply whip related feats to it.

Ultimate Equipment states:

Quote:

Scorpion Whip:

This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

PFSRD link

Best I can do

JJ's opinion.

[ChainsawSam]

OK, Apparently this whole things is a big knotted mess that has been gone over a few times before and remains a big knotted mess.

I couldn't find any of the old posts before I put this one up (I was googling "Scorpion Whip Pathfinder" not "Paizo," oops).

My second set of questions still stands: Is that portion of Serpent Lash obsolete since a whip as a Trip weapon can reposition anyway?

[ChainsawSam]

Davick wrote:

ChainsawSam wrote:

Davick wrote:

I was pretty sure scorpion whip proficiency let you use a whip, not the other way around. In any case, a scorpion whip has the features noted on the chart and no others (I believe there is a dev post about this somewhere), just like the regular whip. But you should still be able to apply whip related feats to it.

Ultimate Equipment states:

Quote:

Scorpion Whip:

This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

PFSRD link

Best I can do

JJ's opinion.

Thanks.

I think that helps. If nothing else it is the newest answer about all this whip/scorpion whip stuff (I just skimmed a bunch of threads dating way back to Adventurer's Armory).

This one is a classic though:

Quote:

Quote:

If used as a Whip, does it still damage armored foes, or deal nonlethal damage?

no

Excellent.

At least for now I have an answer that boils down to "Don't try it in Society play, but maybe at home games."

[Joex The Pale]

I Stand By My Assertion That If You Delete "As a Whip" From Scorpion Whip's Description, All These Problems Go Away.

[Kazaan]

A possible explanation for the Serpent Lash discrepancy. It's talking about being able to reposition as part of the standard attack with the whip that grants additional maneuver attempts (and just worded it rather clumsily). So, as I interpret it, you can use a standard action to make a Trip, Disarm, or Reposition maneuver and, if successful, get a bonus maneuver against a second target, but using the Reposition option comes with a -4 penalty to CMB and you can only reposition them closer.

Note that in the original version of the feat (from another book), it involved making a trip maneuver to drag them closer; I think that came out before the reposition maneuver was introduced (in APG).

[Davick]

ChainsawSam wrote:

Davick wrote:

ChainsawSam wrote:

Davick wrote:

I was pretty sure scorpion whip proficiency let you use a whip, not the other way around. In any case, a scorpion whip has the features noted on the chart and no others (I believe there is a dev post about this somewhere), just like the regular whip. But you should still be able to apply whip related feats to it.

Ultimate Equipment states:

Quote:

Scorpion Whip:

This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

PFSRD link

Best I can do

JJ's opinion.

Thanks.

I think that helps. If nothing else it is the newest answer about all this whip/scorpion whip stuff (I just skimmed a bunch of threads dating way back to Adventurer's Armory).

This one is a classic though:

Quote:

Quote:

If used as a Whip, does it still damage armored foes, or deal nonlethal damage?

no

Excellent.

At least for now I have an answer that boils down to "Don't try it in Society play, but maybe at home games."

If you keep reading he explains the "no"