TWF feats with Natural attacks?

[james knowles]

One of my players (mutagen based alchemist) wants to know if he could take some of the TWF feats (especially two weapon defence and two weapon rend) for his claw attacks even tho he doesn't have the prerequisite TWF feat.

My understanding is that RAW twf can't be combined with his claw attacks because they're primary attack thus he technically has no off hand and can't qualify for twf.

While I don't think letting him ignore the twf prereqs to get the feats he wants is a fair option, I also think there should be some way to accomplish his goal...any suggestions?

[ArmouredMonk13]

I would, as a GM, let him apply two-weapon fighting feats (other than improved/greater for more attacks) to a full attack with his natural attacks, but make him take the two-weapon fighting tax with the minimum dex requirements and everything. Might also through in a flavorful tax or two if I suspected the feat would make him too powerful. RAW it isn't exactly allowed, but thats what I would do as GM.

[lemeres]

Well, claw attacks at least have their own version of rend. No idea why he would want two weapon defense though. There are better options for getting AC.

But as far as raw? No, it would not apply at all to claws or other natural attacks (possibly excluding those claw blades catfolk use, since the whole thing with them is a bit weird...but still, that is hardly a natural attack after using them. )

[Kazaan]

Well, two-weapon defense is based on wielding two weapons; you don't even have to use TWF to get the bonus, which is why it explicitly calls out excluding unarmed strikes and natural attacks. There's a version of two-weapon rend for claws; Rending Claws from APG. It's 1d6 rather than 1d10+1.5x Str, but it only requires 13 Str and a pair of claws to qualify for.

[james knowles]

So, nothing official huh? Looks like I'll have to houserule somrthing then.
Thanks.

[StDrake]

The only official thing I know is multiattack: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/multiattack-combat
that's for when you have 3+ attacks from natural weapons though

also TWF doesn't rule out natural weapons (just TWD does). If you interpret natural weapons as unarmed attacks then "An unarmed strike is always considered light." - taken from the TWF description

[Kazaan]

When you make attacks with manufactured weapons, all natural attacks are treated as secondary weapons; not off-hand weapons. It's entirely possible to TWF with a pair of weapons (ie. two daggers) and also throw in a Bite and Tail natural attack. The natural attacks aren't off-hand weapons, though, they're treated as secondary natural weapons. You cannot TWF with a manufactured weapon plus a natural weapon because natural weapons have their own rules; specific trumps general.