Goblin Squad Member
|
I hope we get a lot of EVE transplants-clandestine or otherwise-in EE. We need the content. A lot of people who supported the Kickstarter are going to try the the game and quit 'cause there's nothing to do. Not enough 'adventure'(read: themepark content). There's going to be a lot more solo players trying the game at first than we think. Two things will happen to them, a lot. 1) They'll die. 2) They'll get numerous offers to join organizations they don't understand. It might be useful for npc factions to make some detailed options available from the get-go. Pvpers are going to camp escalation zones. Why wouldn't they? It may be beneficial to have a couple further out from the starter areas. I perceive-and I could be wrong here-that based on the latest blog that GW has given up the idea of allowing players to 'gift' rep which will halt a lot of abuse. And finally, I don't see how a zerg strategy could work as effectively in PFO as in EVE-one account can't manufacture the equivalent of a ton of disposable ships, no? Anyone else care to peer into the Orb with me? Any premonitions are welcome.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My predictions for EE are that the players that will actually be relevant throughout haven't appeared yet. I believe that the vast majority of the regulars on the boards right now will disappear about a month or two into EE (I tentatively include myself in that.) The culture that emerges from EE will do so organically, counter to anyones attempts mould it beforehand. I don't believe that anyone here will be happy with how the game develops mechanically, however that some people are better equipped than others to deal with that dissatisfaction.
And as soon as the game shows the slightest bit of potential to turn into the next EvE in terms of competitiveness, anyone who was relevant before that point will be pushed out by others coming into the game with more experience and more people. The people who come before that will hold on through their time based mechanical advantage, but that will be eroded over time, and by my measure that won't save them for long.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My predictions for EE are that the players that will actually be relevant throughout haven't appeared yet. I believe that the vast majority of the regulars on the boards right now will disappear about a month or two into EE (I tentatively include myself in that.) The culture that emerges from EE will do so organically, counter to anyones attempts mould it beforehand. I don't believe that anyone here will be happy with how the game develops mechanically, however that some people are better equipped than others to deal with that dissatisfaction.And as soon as the game shows the slightest bit of potential to turn into the next EvE in terms of competitiveness, anyone who was relevant before that point will be pushed out by others coming into the game with more experience and more people. The people who come before that will hold on through their time based mechanical advantage, but that will be eroded over time, and by my measure that won't save them for long.
While I agree with most of what Morbis says above I would add an extra worry in.
During EE the game is going to be pretty sparse in implementation, yes I am aware it will improve during the period but even near OE we are only going to be starting to see the major systems such as settlements etc. The worry then is will the game be able to attract new blood during that time or will it be limited to the kickstarters and second chancers? A group which as Morbis notes we can expect to have a certain attrition rate during EE. I would not be surprised certainly to see a lot of negative press on other sites such as mmorpg from outsiders trying the game in EE and not appreciating its lack of systems.
Age of Conan is an example of a game that got hugely negative press, deservedly if we are honest, once that flood was out there it never recovered.
I know many will say 'but we expected MVP' yes kickstarters did. Joe Random hearing about the game and deciding to give it a try isn't necessarily going to do much more than read the What pathfinder is about blurb and not read widely enough to know about MVP all they will know is the game seems under developed and is charging them a full price sub.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Change the rules if the game is this or that.
An eg I already suggested: Have a dev-led settlement to kick things off for single-players to flock to.
The experienced guilds should be able to handle themselves and handle te above and each other.
The future is not set. I'm more interested in how other mmorpgs such as EQ-Landmark, Camelot Unchained and The Repopulation are perceived and what sort of players take to them or don't. There are pros and cons with each of these. Star Citizen I expect to be peerless critically and popularly.
My only head-scratch is how to satisfy RP'ers and Competive players. It seems te competitive players will push out the RP'ers much like the bigger, disease-carrying, American Grey Squirrel pushing the native British Red Squirrel out in the United Kingdom.
What I'd like to see is the Land on the left (Western) bank of the River Sellen a High Sec LG area for RP'ers to experience Pathfinder Online.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As an addendum because rereading it I fear it came off as being negative when I didn't intend it to be.
What I said is what I believe has a good chance of happening which is
Players trying the game without full knowledge then bad mouthing it because the experience wasn't what they expected. It happens to virtually every game these days.
To combat this I think I would like to see
Goblinworks making a real effort to ensure newcomers know what they are getting into game wise before they enter EE
Goblinworks providing some sort of road map for introduction of missing features, not necessarily giving exact dates more an order of progression so people can make informed decisions about when they want to join EE
Goblinworks providing both of these and a clear concise vision of where they see the game going in a linkable format so that we can use them to counter the negativity that the game may garner on other forums.
I also think we as a community have to be aware of how we handle countering points, when I have read comments from game supporters on gamer sites from a neutral perspective I have often found that excessive zeal and fanboy style white knighting actually puts me off the game more than the negative comments of the nay sayers.
No game is perfect, this one will not be either. If we are honest and admit the flaws while pointing out what is being done to remove them then we will do more for promoting the game than by not admitting any flaws
All of the above is my personal opinion and does not reflect on anyone but myself
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
And as soon as the game shows the slightest bit of potential to turn into the next EvE in terms of competitiveness, anyone who was relevant before that point will be pushed out by others coming into the game with more experience and more people. The people who come before that will hold on through their time based mechanical advantage, but that will be eroded over time, and by my measure that won't save them for long.
I am curious about chartered companies; they will have the ability to move en masse from one settlement to another. Will the companies from early settlements be absorbed into the new settlements in OE?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And as soon as the game shows the slightest bit of potential to turn into the next EvE in terms of competitiveness, anyone who was relevant before that point will be pushed out by others coming into the game with more experience and more people. The people who come before that will hold on through their time based mechanical advantage, but that will be eroded over time, and by my measure that won't save them for long.I am curious about chartered companies; they will have the ability to move en masse from one settlement to another. Will the companies from early settlements be absorbed into the new settlements in OE?
This would be down to the settlement. There is certainly no onus on settlements to accept companies and indeed some companies may find that no one wants them.
I would imagine on the whole settlements will always be interested in recruiting those they consider decent companies. The divisive one will come however when a company is told we will accept your company but we don't want some of the players in it
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Pagan I don't think there is much of anything that can be done about the plague of negative vitriol we see for every game, no matter what it is. I think the cause is a common psycho-sociological defect in the modern age. You might as well try to prevent road rage.
GW probably has the best answer, which is a very limited, paced rollout. Beyond that, there is not a thing in the world to be done unless we stop amateur sport venues which disallow winning and losing in order to boost the self-esteem of children while preventing any player from earning it. Just for starters.
Pagan I don't think there is much of anything that can be done about the plague of negative vitriol we see for every game, no matter what it is. I think the cause is a common psycho-sociological defect in the modern age. You might as well try to prevent road rage.
GW probably has the best answer, which is a very limited, paced rollout. Beyond that, there is not a thing in the world to be done unless we stop amateur sport venues which disallow winning and losing in order to boost the self-esteem of children while preventing any player from earning it. Just for starters.
Yup I agree we can't stop it, I would like to hope we could mitigate it somewhat though.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Yup I agree we can't stop it, I would like to hope we could mitigate it somewhat though.Pagan I don't think there is much of anything that can be done about the plague of negative vitriol we see for every game, no matter what it is. I think the cause is a common psycho-sociological defect in the modern age. You might as well try to prevent road rage.
GW probably has the best answer, which is a very limited, paced rollout. Beyond that, there is not a thing in the world to be done unless we stop amateur sport venues which disallow winning and losing in order to boost the self-esteem of children while preventing any player from earning it. Just for starters.
I think another important aspect is not attempting to sell the game to everyone that most marketing mmorpg campaigns seem to angle at to blitz opening day launch as far and wide and as big as possible. Ryan's said some specific things about this eg dedicated players is the core target.
Hopefully with more indie mmorpgs in development that trend might slacken off as players realize there's different and diverse mmorpgs out there aside from the big themeparks that sell to the widest common denominator.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
My only known fact is that I have 23 months paid in advance. I will begin both of my characters on day one of my availability to enter the game. I will take that day off from work!
As soon as "Bluddwolf" zones into the world of the River Kingdoms, he will walk up to the first person he sees (PC) and stab that person in the face. Wait for guards, stopwatch in hand. Try to kill guards and try to escape if possible. Check impact on alignment and reputation, if they are even in the game during EE.
Switch characters and take out my future Monk. Get a good walking stick and set out into the great wide world.
Those are the only predictions I have at this time.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think another important aspect is not attempting to sell the game to everyone that most marketing mmorpg campaigns seem to angle at to blitz opening day launch as far and wide and as big as possible. Ryan's said some specific things about this eg dedicated players is the core target.
Hopefully with more indie mmorpgs in development that trend might slacken off as players realize there's different and diverse mmorpgs out there aside from the big themeparks that sell to the widest common denominator.
I think once the basics of settlement warfare are in, they have something to sell. Until then they will have a tough time even keeping the hardcore base paying up.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
My only known fact is that I have 23 months paid in advance. I will begin both of my characters on day one of my availability to enter the game. I will take that day off from work!
As soon as "Bluddwolf" zones into the world of the River Kingdoms, he will walk up to the first person he sees (PC) and stab that person in the face. Wait for guards, stopwatch in hand. Try to kill guards and try to escape if possible. Check impact on alignment and reputation, if they are even in the game during EE.
Switch characters and take out my future Monk. Get a good walking stick and set out into the great wide world.
Those are the only predictions I have at this time.
As for a personal prediction, my future Monk will start out as a cleric and seek out combat together with a group of my tabletop Pathfinder friends. My Destiny's Twin will be an arcane caster and work on some kind of crafting, probably potions.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What I'd like to see is the Land on the left (Western) bank of the River Sellen a High Sec LG area for RP'ers to experience Pathfinder Online.
As a RPer, I'm not certain why RPers would need a separate, safer location to enjoy PFO or in order to RP in PFO. Too often in past games, RPers have earned poor reputations (often self-inflicted) by creating their own separate game within the game. This often comes off as being rather exclusive and elitist. I would hope that in PFO, we can explore ways to RP while doing everything else that the game has to offer and do it out among all the other players. That is, to wrap PFO in RP. :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
As a RPer, I'm not certain why RPers would need a separate, safer location to enjoy PFO or in order to RP in PFO. Too often in past games, RPers have earned poor reputations (often self-inflicted) by creating their own separate game within the game. This often comes off as being rather exclusive and elitist. I would hope that in PFO, we can explore ways to RP while doing everything else that the game has to offer and do it out among all the other players. That is, to wrap PFO in RP. :)
What I'd like to see is the Land on the left (Western) bank of the River Sellen a High Sec LG area for RP'ers to experience Pathfinder Online.
I'm thinking a safe area to guide them into the game. Eventually a real LG powerbase could/might rise up created by players that is highly safe and then such players would find an area to enjoy the game more.
Seems to me the highly volatile EE will be "rivers of blood" potentially which is going to push the playing population to be more competitive which then leads to prospective RP'ers to report the game as a conclusive gankfest (from their point of view)? Perhaps the NPC Towns will provide this function anyway.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If players wish to create those kinds of safety zones for new players using the tools at the players' disposal, that's another thing all together. To some extent, the Guide Program is meant to offer new players help, if not safety (starter towns should provide that well enough).
I personally think that would be the best way to ease new people into the game...a helping hand, not buffers from what the real game is like. If too much buffering occurs, we're back to self-isolating groups.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I have nothing against groups running with the same friends. If their group is sufficiently large enough to provide them with everything they need to be successful in PFO, that's fine as well. If not, they wil have to be satisfied with a more constrained form of play.
My response was to what was sounding like a game provided extra safe zone besides the already intended starter zones.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Yeah I started to think the devs have to develop content/systems for everyone to keep lean and so splitting zones just would compromise that necessity anyway.
It's just the usual RP players are polar opposites to the competitive sorts is the dilemma where we have interest from pathfinder PnP vs eg EVE.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
But what better way to RP your character living an actual life than by being fully immersed in the world, doing those things you decide your living, breathing character would do (and not doing what you decide they wouldn't), than separating yourself from it.
If you have to separate or buffer yourself from the game, one could question whether you've chosen the correct game to play for your play style.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Hobs, I thought up a real role that is a specialization for social players to be able to rank other players. It was stemming from this conversation and I posted in the other thread on the Alignment wheel by avari3.
It would be interesting for say a Cleric (A man/women of peace) to go from settlement to settlement "judging the purity" of players for the better of the game and being "diplomatic/holy immunity" role-playing this sort of role perhaps...
Could be a powerful force in the world! It was just an idea but it would allow some RP'ers out and about influencing/"infecting" the playerbase.
Hobs, I thought up a real role that is a specialization for social players to be able to rank other players. It was stemming from this conversation and I posted in the other thread on the Alignment wheel by avari3.
It would be interesting for say a Cleric (A man/women of peace) to go from settlement to settlement "judging the purity" of players for the better of the game and being "diplomatic/holy immunity" role-playing this sort of role perhaps...
Could be a powerful force in the world! It was just an idea but it would allow some RP'ers out and about influencing/"infecting" the playerbase.
Trustworthy players will soon get known throughout the river kingdoms due to the overarching metagame. There doesn't need to be any mechanism for this word of mouth will do. If Eve with 500000 subs can have players with sufficient reputation for honesty that they are known throughout the community then I am sure are infant sized community will be able to manage to recognise the trustworthy
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Trustworthy players will soon get known throughout the river kingdoms due to the overarching metagame. There doesn't need to be any mechanism for this word of mouth will do. If Eve with 500000 subs can have players with sufficient reputation for honesty that they are known throughout the community then I am sure are infant sized community will be able to manage to recognise the trustworthyHobs, I thought up a real role that is a specialization for social players to be able to rank other players. It was stemming from this conversation and I posted in the other thread on the Alignment wheel by avari3.
It would be interesting for say a Cleric (A man/women of peace) to go from settlement to settlement "judging the purity" of players for the better of the game and being "diplomatic/holy immunity" role-playing this sort of role perhaps...
Could be a powerful force in the world! It was just an idea but it would allow some RP'ers out and about influencing/"infecting" the playerbase.
Yeah, I've heard some good stories to this effect. But how to give such players more influence on the game in a role to effect their capacity on the game?
Perhaps they depend on the votes of their religion that gives them this "ranking/rating" capacity to go out "and do good in the world"?!
Diplomat may fall into this sphere somehow also perhaps.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think about this all the time. My touchstone is EVE at launch which had what would be considered today an MVP feature set. They hid in plain sight for a year or two though and we'll be in the crosshairs of the nay-sayers from day one.
Yeah, I don't think you are going to be as lucky as EvE got with it's feature list. Especially because of who you are specifically. I don't mean that personally, but we both know that you have made a few enemies along the way who would happily exaggerate any problems the game might have (the Goons, for example).
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It might be best is EE was called an alpha or alpha.2 release. Crowd forging can be brutal as the "rules" are changing under the characters.
OE should be called a beta release as many features will still be added later. There may still be some crowd forging with balances being adjusted and polling of priority of changes. (There may be two or three poll groups).
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Ryan Dancey "FInd the bugs" is a commercial M$ release.
Alpha is an incomplete release. Work with the developers, give them feed back and suggestions, take suggestions for use. (The issues are not even bugs, but what should it do).
Beta is testing functionality, scope, expansion. Late beta is reduced bug checks and principal capabilities.
Even some highly respected organizations launch a product with some unknown bugs.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Having been an old TSR/Pathfinder junkie from long ago, and having been mesmerized occasionally (but not often) by the play style of MMORPG's for the past two decades or so, I have High hopes and expectations.
I agree that starter players may find it hard, solo'ing might be more predominant to start, but.... isn't that what guilds/factions are for??? I think they should honor guilds with certain abilities, such as helpful buffs for noobs and such which evaporate after a certain skill level, to where joining a guild or faction eases learning. Isn't that what it's about? Community and joining with like minds and players? And for guild roles, isn't that where you find your best and brightest for officership? The ones who help "build" it in helping others? I have guildies I have known for over a decade, and they all started out as noobs someone took under their stewardship and spent the the time to teach.
Anyways, a few humble points of advice for the Pathfinder Devs from this knowledge less retch for your consideration.
You are the originators of this genre'a lore, for pretty much any fantasy game out there. Don't blow it by not making that important.
Stick to the original laws and foundations that always made your kitchen room table games great, and don't deviate for the masses in order to make something easy enough for a five year old to play while riding their "My little Pony" mount.
Make CONSEQUENCE in the game a reality. Your actions dictate your character, and it should always have consequence in the community, for good or ill. I have yet to ever see an MMO ever take this to heart, and I like what I see with reputation and alignment, but it seems "good" sided, and needs balance. Reputation should tick towards their alignment base, not always upwards towards good. Someone crafting a despicable meglo-maniac wizard out to crush the lifelessness out of the masses should be just as viable as Paladin who can't find an aligning party due to his beliefs.
For god's sake please don't consider F2P, or at a minimum, charge for the base game. If you make a great game, people flocking to join will not be the problem, but it will remove half the troublemakers, or at minimum, have a random troll plague that catches those offensives by surprise and flags them as contagious for having random body parts turn troll. Let everyone have "skin in the game", as nothing that is free is ever respected.
Wish list:
Have the combat mechanics of games like Neverwinter, Planetside, EE, or any number of highly playable games. (turn based on timers, not player initiated ticks like DDO)
Have the depth of lore. (If you guys can't do it, no one can)
MAKE IT HARD and challenging to be successful so that building a skill and character has meaning. (Take a hint from EE)
Occasionally have the "finger of god" come down and distribute justice/unfairness. (good or bad mythos, both would be best)
Parting comments:
I don't care to be "Awestruck" with phenomenal visuals in the game, as that's "flash in the pan", and you can sink a fortune in "pretty" and still have an unplayable game no one likes. Do the foundational stuff first to make a fun game to play with a load of content, THEN do the flashy stuff.
Don't listen to whiners, or those who only have self-interest in mind. Stick to your guns, and foundational rules, or you'll end up like any number of games I could mention whose subscriber bases have tanked to appease a handful who leave after five minutes of play, over objections of the base players.