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Rise of the Runelords


Hi there. I'm sure this has been asked a bajillion million times and I'm getting asked about all this stuff all over. I'm going to end up GMing this AP because I couldn't get my group to play Carrion Crown.. (sad panda.. lol) and just trying to figure out what's too much and what's not. I've GM'd only in PFS, so this is my one big AP, and want to make the most out of it.

From my understanding it limits PC's to Core & APG. Would adding anything else outside of that cause significant difficulty? I haven't had a chance to thoroughly read through the sections we're doing (working on it.. just that time of year), but I do want to get advice for it so they can make their characters. I am doing it with 20 point buy.

Thanks for any advice !


Actually, it doesn't limit the players at all. However, there isn't any firearms available as treasure, so if you have a Gunslinger you'll need to add treasure for him or her (if you want to) or have the Gunslinger making his or her own equipment.

That said, it's entirely doable to switch classes out if you want to. For instance, I've heard of people making Nualia an anti-paladin, and I'm sure she'd also work with other classes. Similarly, you could easily have Tsuto be a Brawler (and it might suit him better than Monk) or Lyrie as an Arcanist from the new classes that'll officially come out in August of 2014.

Switch and mix whatever you want really. I know my group includes the regular classes but also has an NPC Ninja Cohort just for the fun factor.


Huh.. I read it somewhere.. weird, maybe it was someone's personal limitations and I misconstrued it. -_-

What about other races? Like.. Catfolk, Griggli, Kitsune, etc.. Would not having something that comes from the races listed cause issues?

And, just found out that with the current limitations I implemented, that our tank wants to make a tower shield specialist fighter with a 20-23 AC at Lv 1.. How bad would that hurt the AP?


Well, he'd not be hit by Goblins for the most part. I've no idea how he'd manage THAT high an armor class!

Then again, the highest armor class my group has is the halfling cleric (AC 24), and the group's 8th level.

The only race I'd not allow is Drow. The reason I'd not allow Drow is that officially they're not known about outside of by elves. But the group I'm running a campaign for includes an NPC Sylph.

Oh. Small note: Do point builds. If you do die-rolls you risk one player with an uber character and at least one with sub-optimal stats. Having a 15 or 20 point build allows for a more even balance of power (the game assumes 15-point builds so it depends on the skill level of your group). I hate saying this, as I have done die-rolls all my life... but point builds can keep from having one overpowered character you have to overcompensate for.


I'm not sure what he is doing either but that's what he told me. I'll be looking over character sheets on Saturday. I think he's sacrificing damage and putting a lot into the shield.

Hrm.. so other races wouldn't really cause an issue? Someone told me I shouldn't because it's not in the story or something to that extent and may not make sense later on. To keep the focus more on the story instead of the characters people could make.

That's exactly what I did. As my post above states, I limited to a 20 point buy. My original plan was like 19-1d6.. but after discussing it with the others, 20 was the way to go.


I have a fetchling, a hobgoblin, and a catfolk in my game, and it's all worked out. The only issues are whatever you want to put in. In my specific instance the fetchling would have had issues in Sandpoint (nothing violent, but people avoiding him, penalties to charisma skills) but he kept a very low profile until becoming a hero during the raid, then afterward he accepted an invitation to join the militia (though he accepted based on a deal with the local crime lord...), so people are pretty cool with him. The hobgoblin wasn't part of the the heroes withstanding the raid, so isn't likely to be as well received, but specifically stays concealed in armor and clothing. The catfolk also didn't take part in withstanding the raid, though he hasn't actually come into the town yet (next session he will), and I plan on having some people stare but most Sandpoint residents would (in my opinion) be happy to see how the catfolk acts before passing judgement.

With RotR I specifically allowed more varied races than I normally would have, being that Sandpoint is fairly open minded, and much of the rest of the campaign takes place in the wilds. There will be some issues when they get to Magnimar, but nothing horrible.

And yeah, point buy...there is nothing more annoying or stupid in this game than rolling stats...


Ah got it. Would have had to make extra story for the different races. Think it makes sense just to keep it simple, especially with it being my first big AP as a GM.

Lol so I've learned.. considering how much PF relies on a D20.


Personally, I would advise against goblinoid races. Though honestly, allowing goblins/hobgoblins/bugbears might make for some fun roleplaying opportunities, given how the AP starts. It just depends on the players. But no, other races shouldn't cause any problems as long as they aren't races that are hated by pretty much everyone, like Drow or Strix. It is completely irrelevant to the story what races the PCs are.
Also, as Tangent said, there are no guns in the AP, so you'll have to handle that somehow if you have a gunslinger.


Keeping it simple is almost always a reasonable option ;)

I made Aldern a gunslinger...mostly because I thought it would be appropriate, and wanted to present guns as a rich man's toy. Conveniently enough I have a gunslinger in my group (the hobgoblin oddly).


I think it may be a matter of the AP being written with just the CRB. So if you allow anything beyond that then you could easily outrun your opposition. So as GM (and I have players using UM/UF builds) you may find you need to beef up your monsters.

Really not that big of a deal.

From a personal standpoint if you aren't terribly familiar with the later books YOU as DM might want to start out with some limitations just to give yourself an easier time running it until you felt you were up to speed.

I started this one with a bunch of players new to PF so I did CRB only at start. By second book we added APG, and now in third I'm allowing everything.


The original Runelords was written for 3.5, and as a third party publisher, Paizo could only use OGL open content. That meant they had to restrict themselves to the 3.5 Players Handbook, open-content monsters from the 3.5 Monster Manual, magic items from the Dungeon Master's Guide, plus any open 3rd-party material they wanted.

For the Anniversary Edition, James Jacobs said that they wanted to stay as close as possible to the original version: which meant that there wasn't a whole lot included from non-Core sources.

That said, a GM can make the player options as wide or as narrow as he or she wants. (Unless the GM is running the AP as a PFS-sanctioned event, in which case the normal PFS campaign rules apply.)


As others have said, the only limits are those you set - definitely want to stick with the Anniversary Edition though.

We ran this AP with four players - a Human Arcane Duelist, a Human Barbarian, a Kitsune Sorcerer and a Goblin Brawler... the Kitsune knew nothing of her birth or heritage, only that there was something strange, alien about her - a fact she took great pains to hide and a fact that her Scarzni mentor Jubrayl went to great efforts to exploit. The goblin was from a rival tribe, exiled and following the war party that raids Sandpoint in the first act. He fights against the rival goblins and is eventually Charmed and interrogated by the Kitsune which results in an ongoing infatuation - and hence his inclusion in the group.

Any option can be used so long as you come up with a 'realistic' way of including it and make sure the townsfolk react realistically to them... And RotRL is one of the every best adventures out there. I wish you luck running it.

Scarab Sages

Rise of the Runelords is incredibly flexible. I'm running the AP in the Eberron setting, and I've got a Gnome, Changeling, Kalashtar, a Valenar Elf, an Arenal Elf, and another Gnome who was recently reincarnated into a lizardfolk. I myself turned Nualia into an anti-paladin, and the magistrate from Skinsaw Murders into an inquisitor.

As long as you're comfortable rolling with some changes and adaptations to meet your players needs, go for it.


The party's half-orc fighter had a 21 AC at level 1 (self-crafted banded mail (7) + heavy shield (2) + Dex 13 (1) + Dodge (1) that went up to 22 when Combat Expertise kicked in (he took Threatening Defender as one of his traits, so he automatically used Combat Expertise whenever he could.) I definitely wouldn't be surprised by higher from a dedicated tower shield build.

Oddly enough, the goblins kept getting great rolls against him (he even got critted by a dead cat one goblin threw at him from a rooftop during the Sandpoint raid) but nothing else has really touched him since, other than the Barghest, which nearly tore him apart in the first round, prompting the group to flee and slam the door shut behind them.


Kalshane wrote:

The party's half-orc fighter had a 21 AC at level 1 (self-crafted banded mail (7) + heavy shield (2) + Dex 13 (1) + Dodge (1) that went up to 22 when Combat Expertise kicked in (he took Threatening Defender as one of his traits, so he automatically used Combat Expertise whenever he could.) I definitely wouldn't be surprised by higher from a dedicated tower shield build.

Oddly enough, the goblins kept getting great rolls against him (he even got critted by a dead cat one goblin threw at him from a rooftop during the Sandpoint raid) but nothing else has really touched him since, other than the Barghest, which nearly tore him apart in the first round, prompting the group to flee and slam the door shut behind them.

Was this intended for this thread? I like the 'dead cat critical'.

Our Goblin Brawler had an AC of 19 at 1st level (Chain Shirt +4, Dex +4, Small +1) but it got better in a hurry. By 5th level it was 29 with Snake Fang and Combat Reflexes and by 9th level it was 33 with Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes, Crane Wing and Crane Riposte. The guy was making 8 or more attacks per round and going multiple encounters without ever getting hit.


Wiggz wrote:


Was this intended for this thread? I like the 'dead cat critical'.

Our Goblin Brawler had an AC of 19 at 1st level (Chain Shirt +4, Dex +4, Small +1) but it got better in a hurry. By 5th level it was 29 with Snake Fang and Combat Reflexes and by 9th level it was 33 with Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes, Crane Wing and Crane Riposte. The guy was making 8 or more attacks per round and going multiple encounters without ever getting hit.

Yes. It was in response to the OPs concern about the AC of the party tank. And thank you, I got the idea from another thread talking about goblin antics. The fact that it critted and then the big, tough half-orc failed the Fort save to not lose his lunch made for a very memorable moment that still gets brought up among the group.

SpiritWolfFenris wrote:
And, just found out that with the current limitations I implemented, that our tank wants to make a tower shield specialist fighter with a 20-23 AC at Lv 1.. How bad would that hurt the AP?

Honestly, I don't think it's too huge of a deal. There will be enough goblins to go around that while the tank will be able to do his job (and likely not suck up healing because of his AC) the other PCs should still be in enough danger to keep things interesting. Also, Mr. Tower Shield might be in trouble if the PCs don't spot the trapped bridge at Thistletop. That -10 ACP to Swim checks is going to be brutal if he doesn't cut his shield free.


There's also flanking and aid another. It might be that I switched out a feat for Weapon Finesse on almost all of my goblins, but in my group hitting was definitely not a problem. 1d4-1 to damage was much more of an issue.

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