Flaming Sphere, Ball lightning - Casting directly at opponent's space

[Perugrin Neveferin]

Ok, I couldnt find an official ruling here, or a satisfying answer on the forum.

I am inclined to not allow the spheres to be able to cause harm without the caster actively directing (moving them). At least the wording of the spells points me to that way.

I saw a post mentioning that once cast inside a creature's space, the sphere instantly ends its 'movement', thus the caster cant move it that round at all. Still, does the original target gets a reflex vs dmg?

It is really not that important, but it could occur if for example two PCs flank an opponent in a corridor and the wizard wishes to cast the sphere directly on the opponent and never moving it (but at least gaining that rounds worth of reflex vs dmg).

[MurphysParadox]

The spell can be cast in any location within the range of the spell, so I would say that you can drop it directly into a creature's square. I would also treat it as having "entering a space with a creature" and go from there (movement stops for the round, reflex save is made, etc).

Otherwise you will either have it pop in right next to (or above) a creature and roll on in, which is unnecessarily complicated. The key being it cannot move out of the square that turn, so the caster doesn't pull some double-duty on the ability for it to damage things.

[Perugrin Neveferin]

Ah thanks, I havent thought the 'directly above' possibility.

Still, it is a bit important because it means that the caster still needs the move action to direct the sphere.

Basically the question comes down to whether or not the caster needs the move action on the 1st round of casting.

[Lifat]

Spoiler:

A spell's range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the range entry of the spell description. A spell's range is the maximum distance from you that the spell's effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell's point of origin. If any portion of the spell's area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include the following.

Bolding is mine and it is taken directly from the magic section of the CRB.

I'd say that the caster gets to choose where the "flaming Sphere" or the like appears in the first round, including areas where creatures are standing. I would not require the caster to use a move action for that either. That said I would naturally judge that you could not move it in the same round as creation if you include creatures in the area where you designate the spells origin, because as flaming sphere mentions; it stops moving for the round as soon as it hits a creature.

[Cevah]

Perugrin Neveferin wrote:

Ah thanks, I havent thought the 'directly above' possibility.

Still, it is a bit important because it means that the caster still needs the move action to direct the sphere.

Basically the question comes down to whether or not the caster needs the move action on the 1st round of casting.

You need a move action to move the sphere. If you don't want to move the sphere, then you don't need to use the move action.

In the first round, the casting of the spell puts the sphere somewhere. If you want to then move it, you use a move action. However, double dipping by placing it in one occupied square and moving to another and getting damage from both squares, I don't think is legit.

/cevah