Can Sneak Attack be used while under the effects of Rage?

[shaxberd]

I haven't seen anything specifically saying that it can't, but it seems like you wouldn't be capable of precision damage while under the effects of barbarian rage or even the rage spell. Possibly, the Urban Barbarian archetype's version would still work. I've been thinking about multiclassing my Half Orc Skulking Slayer to Barbarian, but I'm not sure if that's feasible. Anyway, just looking for clarification, and if possible, a source for that clarification. Thanks.

[Rynjin]

Here are the things you are prohibited from doing in Rage:

"While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration."

Sneak Attack is not on that list. It does not require patience or concentration (it is not a spell, and it is not an action that takes longer than a full round, which even the strictest GMs would say is quite short enough), and it is not a Cha, Dex, or Int based skill check.

Other things you can do in Rage:

-Flank
-Talk
-Open a door
-Listen to your teammates when they propose a plan
-Walk
-Sunder, Disarm, Trip, Grapple, or do some other combat maneuver
-And much much more!

[Umbranus]

Yes, you can.

[Gwyrdallan]

What about sniping from concealment? That seems like it might be prohibited in rage. At least that is how I ruled last night in my game.

[blackbloodtroll]

Can you sneak attack during Rage?
I can sneak attack, Sam-I-am.
I can sneak attack, yes I can.
Can you sneak attack here or there?
I can sneak attack here or there.
I can sneak attack anywhere.
I can sneak attack, yes I can.
I can sneak attack, Sam-I-am.
Can you sneak attack in a house?
Can you sneak attack with a mouse?
I can sneak attack in a house.
I can sneak attack with a mouse.
I can sneak attack them here or there.
I can sneak attack anywhere.
I can sneak attack, yes I can.
I can sneak attack, Sam-I-am.
Can you sneak attack them in a box?
Can you sneak attack them with a fox?
I can in a box. I can with a fox.
I can in a house. I can with a mouse.
I can sneak attack here or there.
I can sneak attack anywhere.
I can sneak attack, yes I can.
I can sneak attack, Sam-I-am.
Can you? Could you? In a cart?
Sneak attack them! Sneak attack them! From finish to start!
I can sneak attack, could sneak attack, in a cart.
You may sneak attack. You will see.
You may sneak attack in a tree.
I can sneak attack, could sneak attack, in a tree.
Sneak attack in a cart! You let me be!
I can sneak attack in a box.
I can sneak attack with a fox.
I can sneak attack in a house.
I can sneak attack with a mouse.
I can sneak attack them here or there.
I can sneak attack anywhere.
I can sneak attack, yes I can.
I can sneak attack, Sam-I-am.
The rain! The rain! The rain! The rain!
Could you, can you, in the rain?
Sneak attack in the rain! Sneak attack in a tree!
Sneak attack in cart, Sam! Let it be!
I can sneak attack, could sneak attack, in a box.
I can sneak attack, could sneak attack, with a fox.
I will sneak attack them with a mouse.
I will sneak attack them in a house.
I will sneak attack them here or there.
I will sneak attack them anywhere.
I can sneak attack, yes I can.
I can sneak attack, Rage be damned!

[Midnighter]

BBT you need a hobby. You obviously have too much time on your hands :)

[Rynjin]

Gwyrdallan wrote:

What about sniping from concealment? That seems like it might be prohibited in rage. At least that is how I ruled last night in my game.

Yes.

Reason: Dex based skills are prohibited in Rage. Stealth is a Dex based skill.

So you can't Sneak Attack by actually SNEAKING. But you can get it on Flatfooted opponents and ones you're Flanking.

[blackbloodtroll]

With the Coherent Rage trait, you could use Stealth.

Of course, most of the actually reliable ways of getting Sneak Attack damage off, don't involve Stealth, or anything that could even be called "sneaky".

The class feature name is a bit of a misnomer.

[darth_gator]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

With the Coherent Rage trait, you could use Stealth.

Of course, most of the actually reliable ways of getting Sneak Attack damage off, don't involve Stealth, or anything that could even be called "sneaky".

The class feature name is a bit of a misnomer.

Imagine if the feature were called something more appropriate...like back stabbing. I wonder if anyone's ever thought of that? ;-)

[Kazaan]

darth_gator wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

With the Coherent Rage trait, you could use Stealth.

Of course, most of the actually reliable ways of getting Sneak Attack damage off, don't involve Stealth, or anything that could even be called "sneaky".

The class feature name is a bit of a misnomer.

Imagine if the feature were called something more appropriate...like back stabbing. I wonder if anyone's ever thought of that? ;-)

That wouldn't work either.

1) There's no facing in Pathfinder so your character, mechanically, has no "back".

2) Even if you did have a "back", a sneak attack could very well be driving a dagger into someone's gut while they're not prepared to evade (denied dex to AC).

It requires neither attacking someone from behind nor does necessarily require them to be unaware of the attack, though both are still valid options.

[darkwarriorkarg]

Call it "Cheap Shot", then :-)

[Bizbag]

darkwarriorkarg wrote:

Call it "Cheap Shot", then :-)

This is much more apropos, but we could probably take it farther - rogues can be any alignment, so some may not feel it appropriate to fight "dirty" when they are simply skilled at capitalizing on their opponents' lack of focus - imagine a rogue/paladin, for example. Anyone got any ideas?

[Kazaan]

They could just call it "Precision attack that deals extra damage when the opponent can't properly defend" but that would just take up too much space in the book. Sometimes, things are named more for quick mental recognition and it's up to the intelligent reader to expound on that to figure out what else is included. A prime example is Punishing Kick. No where does it specify it must be a kick... it doesn't even specify it must be an unarmed strike. Double Slice can be used with Blunt or Piercing type weapons just as well as it works for Slashing weapons. Calling them "Sneak Attack" and "Rage" are fine just so long as the readers remember that these are exemplar terms used to label the abilities and distinguish them from other abilities.

[darth_gator]

Kazaan wrote:

darth_gator wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

With the Coherent Rage trait, you could use Stealth.

Of course, most of the actually reliable ways of getting Sneak Attack damage off, don't involve Stealth, or anything that could even be called "sneaky".

The class feature name is a bit of a misnomer.

Imagine if the feature were called something more appropriate...like back stabbing. I wonder if anyone's ever thought of that? ;-)

That wouldn't work either.

1) There's no facing in Pathfinder so your character, mechanically, has no "back".

2) Even if you did have a "back", a sneak attack could very well be driving a dagger into someone's gut while they're not prepared to evade (denied dex to AC).

It requires neither attacking someone from behind nor does necessarily require them to be unaware of the attack, though both are still valid options.

I realize all of that, Kazaan. I guess you didn't play much D&D before 2000?

[Nefreet]

IIRC the epitome of Rogue combat in 2nd Ed was "Dual Backstab".

If they played with a Tengu Rogue today they'd cry.

[Majuba]

darth_gator wrote:

Kazaan wrote:

darth_gator wrote:

Imagine if the feature were called something more appropriate...like back stabbing. I wonder if anyone's ever thought of that? ;-)

That wouldn't work either.

I realize all of that, Kazaan. I guess you didn't play much D&D before 2000?

I think Kazaan was simply pointing out that (while a good joke), that name has just as many implications that cause complications. In case someone, who hadn't played back then, thought it a great idea.