First of a few I'd like to start with asking for critical input and maybe some fun additions to some concepts that I had.
In creation, I partially referenced the race builder and other templates, but as good as it may look for me, I know some might think otherwise and correct my blunt mistakes.
[and pardon my mediocre English, it's not my first language]
First, High Goblins fill a role of forest savages, somewhat noble and witty, mostly a forest folk, but it is not rare for them to trade with others.
High Goblin (Giblin) Humanoid (Goblinoid)
+2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2CHA: Giblins possess a small nimble frame, they are cautious of their surroundings, but to most appear a bit unpleasant on the eyes.
Medium: Giblins are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Giblins have a base speed of 30 feet.
Lowlight vision: Giblins can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Skilled hunter: Giblins make due by drifting and hunting. They receive +2 on survival checks.
Survivalist: Giblins are adept at making various traps to survive in the wilderness. Survival and Craft Traps are always a class skill for Giblins.
Ferocious: Members of this race gain the following extraordinary ability: If the hit points of a member of this race fall below 0 but it is not yet dead, it can continue to fight. If it does, it is staggered, and loses 1 hit point each round. It still dies when its hit points reach a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.
Languages: Goblin. Giblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: gnome, common, orc, or giant.
Deep Goblins give dwarves and gnomes a run for their money, constantly struggling for resources and competing in who has better underground architecture. Where dwarves are wiser and more noble, these guys would prefer trickery and deceit.
Deep Goblin (Grobt); Humanoid (Goblinoid)
+2 CON, +2 INT, -2 CHA: Grobts, though short, are quite stocky. Among all the goblinoids they poses the greatest natural prowess for skill and knowledge, but their tick hide is considered unpleasant by most.
Medium: Grobt are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Slow Speed: Grobts are quite slow for heir size. Base land speed is 20 feet.
Darkvision: Grobts can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Light Sensitivity: these goblinoids lived in darkness for a long time and are dazzled as long as they remain in an area of bright light.
Sure-footed: Grobt receive a +4 racial bonus to their CMD when resisting bull rush or trip attempts while standing on the ground.
Improved Natural Armour: Grobts possess thick skin that can absorb some damage. They receive +1 Natural Armour.
Tough kind: Grobts are a very tough bunch. They receive Toughness as bonus feat.
Master Tinkers: Grobt gain a +1 bonus on Disable Device and Knowledge (engineering) checks. Members of this race are also treated as proficient with any weapon they have personally crafted.
Craftsman: Grobts have a +2 racial bonus on all Craft or Profession checks to create objects from metal or stone.
Languages: Goblin. Giblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: dwarven, gnome, common, orc, or giant.
An artificially bred race in times before, now free Brutlings are pretty much the scum under the earth, breed like rats, form savage war-bands and loot, loot, loot, kill, kill, kill.
Brutlings; Humanoid (Goblinoid)
+2 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT; -4 CHA: Brutal, ill-witted and deformed, they are the bane of sewers, caves and chasms.
Medium: Brutlings are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Slow Speed: Brutlings slow and clumsy. Base land speed is 20 feet.
Darkvision: Brutlings can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Light Sensitivity: these goblinoids lived in darkness for a long time and are dazzled as long as they remain in an area of bright light.
Tough hide: Brutlings have ugly hard skins. They have +2 Natural Armor.
Fearless: these goblin cousins rarely feel fear. Brutlings gain a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against fear effects.
Ferocious: Members of this race gain the following extraordinary ability: If the hit points of a member of this race fall below 0 but it is not yet dead, it can continue to fight. If it does, it is staggered, and loses 1 hit point each round. It still dies when its hit points reach a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.
Languages: Goblin. With high Intelligence scores they can choose any of the following: dwarven, gnome, common, orc, or giant.
last but not least, the one I would like the most help and input with.
Ogre-kin, a playable race in my home-brew, since story-wise, breeding giants and giant-like creatures in alchemy labs for warfare was a thing "a while" back, but now there is enough of them to procreate on their own. They are made to be clumsy, dumb, disfigures yet versatile damage and work machines, nothing more.
Ogre-kin; Humanoid (Giant/Human)
+4 STR, +2 CON, -2 WIS, -2 INT, -2 CHA: Half-ogres are immensely strong and hardy, but somewhat slow-witted, brash and unpleasant to talk to.
Medium: Orge-kin are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Orge-kin have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-light vision: Orge-kin can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Imposing Figure: Orge-kin are intimidating without trying. They get a +2 racial bonus to Intimidate checks.
Social stigmata: Orge-kin are often subject to prejudice and distrust. They receive -2 to Diplomacy checks against all other humanoids.
Powerful build: Orge-kin poses the physical stature that lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever an Ogre-kin is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for a Combat Maneuver Bonus or Combat Maneuver Defense (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Ogre-kin is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Ogre-kin is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as grab or swallow whole) can affect him. An Ogre-kin can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remains that of a creature of Medium size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.
Degeneracy: like inbred ogres, ogre-kin often suffer from disfigurement and degeneracies that make these imposing creatures even more similar to their cousins. After deciding to be an Ogre-kin and allocating ability scores an Ogre-kin can pick a number of degenerative traits that will grant him certain abilities in price of lowering certain ability scores, losing traits or gaining weaknesses. Note one can take as many degeneracies as he wants, as long as no ability score ends up lower than 6, or take non at all. Every degeneracy can be taken only once. An ogre-kin can have only one ancestral degeneracy.
Degeneracies:
• Vestigial head. A malformed, repulsive twin’s head juts out from the ogre-kin collarbone, providing the ogre-kin with all-around vision, meaning ogre-kin sees in all directions at once and cannot be flanked.
This head, though a part of the Ogre-kin, possess an Intelligence score and Wisdom score of its own (which are equal to Ogre-kin base Intelligence and Wisdom scores -8, but no less than 3). It can make Perception and knowledge checks on its own, using ogre-kins ranks in those skills and, if intelligent enough, convey that information to others.
In addition once per day, +1 additional time every 4 levels, when faced with illusions or other mind-affecting spells and spell-like abilities, the Ogre-kin can re-roll the will or perception check using his second head with its ability scores.
This deformity, is considered very repulsive by most and causes breeds certain behavior issues, the Ogre-kin loses additional -4 Charisma and -2 Wisdom.
• Ogre Maw (Ex). The half ogre is born with a vicious animalistic jaw full of jagged teeth and fangs, however, such a jaw imposes several speech difficulties and deforms the skull. Such a sight instils fear in others and the Ogre-kin gains additional +2 to Intimidate checks. This maw grants him a 1d6 primary natural attack. However the Half-ogre receives -2 to Charisma. By taking Ogre Maw degeneracy, a half-ogre can take an additional degeneracy:
o Cannibalistic urges (Ex). Some Half-ogres go even further and embrace the ogres hunger for raw flesh. By taking this trait the Half-Ogre is required to consume raw flesh of humanoids or monstrous humanoids as sustenance at least once every 2 days or take DC 20 Fortitude save each subsequent day he does not consume flesh to resist taking (character level +2)d6 points of nonlethal starvation damage from hunger. By taking starvation damage ogre-kin makes a DC 20 Will save to resist taking 2d6 points of Wisdom drain as the cannibal urgings overwhelm the PC and drive him to the brink of madness.
The Ogre-kin gains Tearing bite special attack. While in grapple with a living creatures of flesh and blood the Ogre-kin can make a single natural bite attack at highest base attack bonus. If the attack is successful the target makes a fortitude save DC 10 + Ogre-kin character level + damage or takes double damage from the bite attack. On his own turn, if the special attack was successful, as a swift action, the Ogre-kin can swallow the flesh, gaining fast healing 2 for 2 rounds. If the flesh is torn The target then takes a DC 15 fortitude check to overcome agonizing pain, that adds -4 to all attack and skill rolls for 1d4 rounds.
• Vestigial arm. An additional arms, left or right, stick out of the side of the rib cage, it is somewhat malformed and misshaped. This arm follows same rules as an alchemists discovery by the same name, and In addition grants a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks but reduces Charisma by 2.
• Liverot Ogre. This particular ogre-kin is suffering from a rare degeneracy. The Half-ogres skin is covered in hideous blisters and blots, giving off the feeling of rotting alive. This degeneracy functions the same way as Oracles Wasted curse:
o You take a –4 penalty on Charisma-based skill checks, except for Intimidate. You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves made against disease.
o At 5th level, you are immune to the sickened condition (but not nauseated).
o At 10th level, you gain immunity to disease.
o At 15th level, you are immune to the nauseated condition.
• Ironhide. This particular Ogre-kins skin is as tough as those of pure-blooded Ogres. This skin, though tough, looks deformed and unnatural, as if the half-ogre wears someone else's skin on top his own. This degeneracy provides +2 Natural armor at a cost of 2 Charisma.
• Cyclopiod (Ancestral Degeneracy). This particular ogre-kin shares ancestry with the race of Cyclops. As a result one of his eyes is much larger and shifted to the center of the skull, while the other is much smaller and deformed. The Ogre-kin gains Flash of insight supernatural ability, same as Cyclops, usable once per day, +1 additional use at level 10 and 20. This ability cannot be used more often than once per round. At the same time the Ogre-kin suffers a -4 to Charisma.
• Broad-kin. This particular Ogre-kin has huge, monstrous arms for its size. These arms poses immense strength and make the ogre a bit clumsy. The ogre-kin gains additional +2 to Strength and reach of 5ft. Yet the Ogre-kin racial speed drops by 10ft per round and he gains -2 to Intelligence.
• True Half-ogre (Ancestral Degeneracy). This particular ogre-kin has a much closer heritage to other ogres, growing to be even larger and more vicious, while losing some of their humanity. True Half-ogres loose the benefits of Powerful build trait, gain +2 Natural armor and become large instead, gaining all the benefits of being large. Large creatures gain a +2 size bonus to Strength and a –2 size penalty to Dexterity. Large races take a –1 size penalty to their AC, a –1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 bonus on combat manoeuvre checks and to their CMD, and a –4 size penalty on Stealth checks. A Large creature takes up a space that is 10 feet by 10 feet and has a reach of 5 feet. Ogre-kin also loses additional 2 points of Intelligence.
• Horned Ogre (Ancestral Degeneracy). Though exact reasons are unknown, some half ogres upon maturity grow a pair of robust horns from their massive foreheads. Horned half-ogres receive a primary 1d6 Gore natural attack and Scent ability at a price of -2 to Intelligence.
• Oni Ogre (Ancestral Degeneracy). This particular ogre-kin shares ancestry with infamous Ogre Mages and inherits some of their magic powers. The Ogre-kin as a standard action gains spell-like abilities identical to Darkness and Alter Self spells usable once per day, plus one additional time for every 5 lever he possesses, with the caster level being half the Ogre-kins levels (minimum 1). However the Ogre-kin loses his Powerful Build trait.
• Greavetaint half-ogre (Ancestral Degeneracy). Very rare bloodlines of half-ogres can be traced to rare or ancient experiments of human-ogre transmutation done upon the dead and living. These Ogre-kin poses an unnatural connection to the dead and receive the half-undead trait which gives following benefits:
o Half-undead have the darkvision 60 feet racial trait.
o Half-undead gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease and mind-affecting effects.
o Half-undead take no penalties from energy-draining effects, though they can still be killed if they accrue more negative levels than they have Hit Dice. After 24 hours, any negative levels they've gained are removed without any additional saving throws.
o Half-undead creatures are harmed by positive energy and healed by negative energy. A half-undead creature with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
Ogre-kin who have this unnatural affinity for death are also able, as a standard action to cast a cause light wounds spell. This ability can be used once per day, plus one additional time for every 5 lever he possesses, with the caster level being half the Ogre-kins levels (minimum 1)
Half ogres of this kind are not as robust as their kin and loose the powerful build trait, as well as receive -2 to Charisma because of their disturbing lifeless outlook.
• Troll-blood (Ancestral Degeneracy). This ogre-kin is a descendant of a very rare artificial bloodline of Troll-Ogre hybrids. The ogre-kin is able to regenerate wounds very quickly, gaining Fast healing 1 and additional +1 for every 5 levels, up to a total regeneration 5 at level 20. The common heritage with trolls is not without cost, it deforms the body and mind: Ogre-kin gains -4 to Intelligence and base land speed is lowered by 10ft per round. Troll-bloods can receive double damage from fire and acid attacks and these types of damage can only heal by conventional means.
Languages: Common, Giant. Half-ogres with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: dwarven, goblin or orc.
Maybe someone will have some ideas for additional degeneracies?
Keydan,
I like the idea of your High Goblins, having created a race much like them, myself. There's a book that I read quite some time ago called the Goblin Mirror, and the goblins in that book were quite reminiscent of your High Goblins (which is what drove me to create the race myself). However, your High Goblins come across as a race that are akin to Wild Elves, but they're goblin-shaped instead of elf-shaped. I'd prefer to see them become far more distinctive.
As for your Deep Goblins, they're basically tougher, dwarf-shaped goblins. I understand what you're doing there, but I think you're missing out on the opportunity to do something a lot more interesting rather than having goblin-duergar. Personally, I'd combine them with your Brutlings and let them be tunnel-scavengers that breed like rabbits and crowd out dwarven strongholds, overrunning them by sheer force of numbers and lurking in the tunnels outside of the dwarven cities, ready to ambush dwarven mining expeditions.
Your Ogre-kin are, to put it mildly, are wildly unbalanced, compared to the true-bred Ogres in the Advanced Race Guide. They should at least be Large, as they're part giant (or giant-like creature), but it's the degeneracies (which are rather interesting) that really put them out of whack. Take, for example, your Ironhide degeneracy. It puts them at -1 in total (assuming that a -2 to Charisma is -4RP). The whole race is wonky.
Ability Scores (5RP): Paragon (1RP)
Advanced Constitution (4RP)
Medium Size (0RP)
Normal Speed (0RP)
Low-Light Vision (1RP)
Imposing Figure (2RP)
Social Stigmata (-2RP)
Powerful Build (18RP): Benefits of being Large (7RP)
_______________No Dexterity Penalty (4RP)
_______________No -1 AC Penalty (1RP)
_______________No -4 Penalty to Stealth Checks (5RP)
_______________No space penalty (at least 1RP)
Base Race Cost: 24RP
Then your degeneracies play around with this quite a bit.
Vestigial head (-9RP): No flanking (2RP)
_______________Reroll check (1RP; it's like Eternal Hope, but without the bonus)
_______________-4 to Charisma (-8RP)
_______________-2 to Wisdom (-4RP)
_______________(Not to mention that the second head gets a -8 on both Intelligence and Wisdom scores; so the Ogre-kin automatically gets a -4 to Wisdom in the first head and a -12 to Wisdom on the second. It's got to have a Wisdom score of 16 to start being a significant penalty to the second head, since you can't go below 3, and it's got a -10 on Intelligence, so you'd have to have at least a 14 for that to be a real penalty to the secondary head, too.)
Ogre Maw (24RP): +2 bonus to Intimidate (2RP)
_______________1d6 bite attack (only 3RP, since you already get the benefits of being Large with none of the penalties.)
_______________-2 to Charisma (-4RP)
_______________Additional Degeneracy - Cannibalistic Urges (25RP)
______________________________Flesh Consumption (-1RP; Vulnerable to Sunlight affects every hour and costs -2RP, yours affects every 2 days).
______________________________Tearing Bite (26RP; there's no base for this, but since you get a suite of benefits, I'd conservatively rate this at 28RP; 4 for the attack at highest base bonus, 3 for the double damage [1-1/2 damage is +2, Powerful Charge being my example], 13 for the Fast Healing 2, 6RP for the -4 penalty to all attack rolls and skill checks [it's like Sickened times two, and Stench Aura, which functions in similar manner is 4RP, but you don't penalize the weapon damage rolls, saving throws, or ability checks]).
Not even getting into the others at this point. This is just so wildly out of balance that it needs a complete reworking from the ground up.
Huge thanks for the input, Will re-work these concepts in a bit and share them again.
And here I thought the half ogre would be something along the line of 13-14 Rp, I'd need to recalculate myself.
The powerful build trait is taken from half-giants, and some threads estimated it as 4rp, since 7 is being large and you really only get +1 cmb, no reach and the ability to use weapons 1 size category larger. but I could tweak it...
Keydan,
With your Ogre-kin, you're basically giving them all of the benefits of being large with none of the penalties. Now, the Large size costs 7RP all by itself, and you could probably tack on at least 1RP more due to the fact that you're still a Medium sized creature, so creatures that get bonuses against Large creatures don't get bonuses against you, and you could probably add a final 1RP due to the fact that you can use mounts intended for Medium sized creatures. You might mitigate that by 1RP with the fact that you have no reach, except Large creatures don't automatically get reach - you have to buy it, so you're still looking at 9RP for the base of Powerful Build, bringing it to a staggering 19RP.
If you're going to go with the half-ogre concept, you might want to go somewhere inbetween full-blown human (9RP) and the full blown ogre (Advanced Race Guide, p. 229; 23RP). That would probably put you in the neighborhood of 16RP, and you could blend the two races together in terms of what abilities get stacked in.
Beyond that, you want to normalize your degeneracies so that they all work out to a -X (X being 3, or 5 or whatever you decide, but they should all be the same), and that way you could possibly classify the race as balanced with a standard race (because you're floating somewhere around 10RP). Additionally, stay away from negative Ability modifiers! The paragon ability set already gives you a +4 to one stat and 3 -2s. Giving your ogre-kin additional -2s creeps far into munchkin territory, as I've already pointed out.
Honestly, if I were you, I'd start out with the base human, drop the Flexible Bonus Feat and the Skilled racial traits, then add in Large, Natural Armour, Reach, and Darkvision 60'. That puts you at 13RP (Large size 7RP; Natural Armour 2RP; Reach 1RP; Darkvision 60' 2RP and Linguist 1RP). You could throw on Improved Natural Armour (1RP) and Low-Light Vision (1RP) to bring yourself up to 15RP, which puts you right in the ballpark. Alternatively, drop Linguist, don't add in Improved Natural Armour or Low Light Vision and either give yourself Advanced Consitution (4RP) or Skilled (4RP). I'd recommend Skilled to give yourself a better balance of human to ogre. That would put you right up at 16RP, right where you want to be.
Potentially add in a degeneracy that puts you at -4RP or -5RP (though at this point, I'd just leave it alone) and you're fairly well balanced for an advanced race. Boom, Half-Ogre away!
Made some remodeling. Added RP counts, for most traits.
Made the High Goblins a bit more unique. Like a "we saty our grown in our land and take what we want from you"
High Goblin (Giblin) Humanoid (Goblinoid)
+2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2CHA: Giblins possess a small nimble frame, they are cautious of their surroundings, but to most appear a bit unpleasant on the eyes.(0rp)
Medium: Giblins are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Giblins have a base speed of 30 feet.
Lowlight vision: Giblins can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. (1rp)
Skilled hunter: Giblins make due by drifting and hunting. They receive +2 on survival checks. (2rp)
Survivalist: Giblins are adept at making various traps to survive in the wilderness. Survival and Craft Traps are always a class skill for Giblins. (1rp)
Nature-runner: Being quick in native environment is key Giblins survival. Giblins are nimble and fast, their base land speed is +10ft grater. In addition, pick any one natural terrain (desert, forest, swamp…), the Giblin can ignore any natural difficult terrain or obstacles in that terrain (3?rp)
Sworn enemy: Giblins often encroach upon territories of other humanoids in search of better food or resources. As a result, Giblins usually have a particular hatred towards one typo of neighbouring humanoid. Pick a humanoid race, a Giblin receives a +2 dodge bonus and +1 to attack and damage rolls against that humanoid. (3rp)
Languages: Goblin, Common. Giblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: gnome, orc, dwarven, sylvan or giant.
Deep goblins are less druegary now. More militant, and imperialist.
Deep Goblin (Grobt); Humanoid (Goblinoid)
+2 CON, +2 INT, -2 WIS, -2 CHA: Grobts, though short, are quite stocky. Among all the goblinoids they poses the greatest natural prowess for skill and knowledge, but they are quite reckless and their thick hide is considered unpleasant by most. (+1-4=-3rp)
Medium: Grobt are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Slow Speed: Grobts are quite slow for heir size. Base land speed is 20 feet. (-1rp)
Darkvision: Grobts can see in the dark up to 60 feet. (2rp)
Light Sensitivity: these goblinoids lived in darkness for a long time and are dazzled as long as they remain in an area of bright light. (-1rp)
Shure footed: Grobt receive a +4 racial bonus to their CMD when resisting bull rush or trip attempts while standing on the ground. (1rp)
Tunnel fighters: Constant rivalries with other clans, dwarves and gnomes led to Grobts developing interesting fighting styles in which two or more deep goblins act as one. When standing adjacent or flanking an opponent with another Grobt, who has the same trait, deep goblins receive benefits of the following teamwork feats: Back to Back; Outflank. (2+2 static feats but specific conditions -1, a 3rp cost?)
Improved Natural Armour: Grobts possess thick skin that can absorb some damage. They receive +1 Natural Armour. (2rp)
Tough kind: Grobts are a very tough bunch. They receive Toughness as bonus feat. (2rp)
Master engineers: Grobt are very capable at both building and destroying structures. Disable Device and Knowledge (engineering) checks are always a class skill for deep goblins. (1rp)
Craftsmen: Grobts have a +2 racial bonus on all Craft or Profession checks to create objects from metal or stone. (1rp)
Languages: Goblin. Giblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: dwarven, gnome, common, orc, undercommon or giant.
Brutlings are a bit more, well, brutal.
+2 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2WIS, -4 CHA: Brutal, ill-witted and deformed, they are the bane of sewers, caves and chasms. (-3rp-4+4=-3rp)
Medium: Brutlings are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Slow Speed: Brutlings slow and steady. Base land speed is 20 feet. (-1rp)
Darkvision: Brutlings can see in the dark up to 60 feet. (2rp)
Light Sensitivity: these goblinoids lived in darkness for a long time and are dazzled as long as they remain in an area of bright light. (-1rp)
Tough hide: Brutlings have ugly hard skins. They have +2 Natural Armor. (2+1=3rp)
Fearless: these goblin cousins rarely feel fear. Brutlings gain a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against fear effects. (1rp)
Ferocious: Members of this race gain the following extraordinary ability: If the hit points of a member of this race fall below 0 but it is not yet dead, it can continue to fight. If it does, it is staggered, and loses 1 hit point each round. It still dies when its hit points reach a negative amount equal to its Constitution score. (4rp)
Unstable: Brutlings are know for their sponanous feats of rage and destructions. Once per day, whenever a brattling takes damage, it flies into a frenzy for 1 minute, gaining a +4 racial bonus to Constitution and Strength, and a 1d4 primary bite natural attack, but a –2 penalty to AC. (Frenzy is a 2. but with a bite and higher score for it maybe 5rp?)
Languages: Goblin. Giblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: dwarven, gnome, common, orc, or giant.
Fully remade the half-ogre, decided that they just get 1 normal degeneracy at 4-5 RP and another ancestral at 4-5 RP at players choice. These degeneracies pretty much shape the half-ogre. And at the end he would be ~10-12 RP.
Ogre-kin; Humanoid (Giant/Human)
+4 STR, -2 WIS, -2 INT, -4 CHA: Half-ogres are immensely strong, but somewhat slow-witted, brash and unpleasant to talk to. (1-4=-3rp)
Medium: Orge-kin are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Orge-kin have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-light vision: Orge-kin can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. (1rp)
Powerful grip: Orge-kin poses immense physical stature and large muscular arms. An Ogre-kin is considered to be one size category larger when using oversized weapons. (2rp more like a static feat now)
Giant-like: Half-orcs count as both humans and giants for any effect related to race. (? This is more a disadvantage than an advantage imho)
Ogre degeneracy: like inbreed ogres, ogre-kin suffer from disfigurement and degeneracies that make these imposing creatures even more similar to their cousins. An Ogre-kin must choose one of the following degeneracies:
• Vestigial head. A malformed, repulsive twin’s head juts out from the ogre-kin collarbone, providing the ogre-kin with all-around vision, meaning ogre-kin sees in all directions at once and cannot be flanked, unless he is immobile of flatfooted, or otherwise powerless to help himself in battle.
This head, though a part of the Ogre-kin, possess an Intelligence score and Wisdom score of its own (which are equal to Ogre-kin base Intelligence and Wisdom scores -8, but no less than 3). It can make Perception and knowledge checks on its own, using ogre-kins ranks in those skills and, if intelligent enough, convey that information to others. When gaining bonus ability score, an ogre-kin can spend them to increase vestigial head ability scores instead of his own.
Starting at level 5, once per day, +1 additional time every 5 levels, when faced with illusions or other mind-affecting spells and spell-like abilities, the Ogre-kin can re-roll the will or perception check using his second head with its own ability scores. (?rp I’d say 4 is enough)
• Ogre Maw (Ex). The half ogre is born with a vicious animalistic jaw full of jagged teeth and fangs, however, such a jaw imposes several speech difficulties and deforms the skull. Such a sight instils fear in others and the Ogre-kin gains additional +2 to Intimidate checks. This maw grants him a 1d6 primary natural attack. (1+1+2 as in a feat that makes his bite stronger=4rp)
• Vestigial arm. An additional arms, left or right, stick out of the side of the rib cage, it is somewhat malformed and misshaped. This arm follows same rules as an alchemists discovery by the same name, and In addition grants a +2 racial bonus on grapple checks. (a nerfed version of multiarmed spliced with grappling appendages, I’d say 4rp)
• Liverot Ogre. This particular ogre-kin is suffering from a rare degeneracy. The Half-ogres skin is covered in hideous blisters and blots, giving off the feeling of rotting alive. And ogre-kin with this degeneracy takes –4 penalty on Charisma-based skill checks in social interactions, except for Intimidate. He, however, gains a +4 competence bonus on saves made against disease, poisons, intoxication, sickened and nauseated effects. (?rp but it could be 4, couldn’t it?)
• Ironhide. This particular Ogre-kins skin is as tough as those of pure-blooded Ogres. This skin, though tough, looks deformed and unnatural, as if the half-ogre wears someone else’s skin on top his own. This degeneracy provides +2 Natural armour. (3rp)
• Human after all. Some half-ogres are perceived more human than others. These half-ogres select one extra feat at 1st level. (4rp)
Ancestral degeneracy. Aside from random malformations of the body and mind, most half-ogres have an ancestral degeneracy, a kind of
• Cyclopiod (Ancestral Degeneracy). This particular ogre-kin shares ancestry with the race of Cyclops. As a result one of his eyes is much larger and shifted to the centre of the skull, while the other is much smaller and deformed. The Ogre-kin gains Flash of insight supernatural ability, same as Cyclops, usable once per day, +1 aditional use at level 10 and 20. This ability cannot be used more often than once per round. The half-ogre also gains Light-sensitivity trait. [5 or 6 for a Su ability -1= 4 or 5rp]
• Broad-kin. This particular Ogre-kin has huge, monstrous arms for its size. These arms poses immense strength and make the ogre a bit clumsy. The ogre-kin gains additional +2 to Strength and reach of 5ft. Yet the Ogre-kin racial speed drops by 10ft per round. (4+1-1=4rp)
• True Half-ogre. This particular ogre-kin has a much closer heritage to other ogres, growing to be even larger and more vicious, while losing some of their humanity. True Half-ogres loose the benefits of Powerful grip trait, and instead become large creatures, gaining all the benefits of being large. Large creatures gain a +2 size bonus to Strength and a –2 size penalty to Dexterity. Large races take a –1 size penalty to their AC, a –1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 bonus on combat manoeuvre checks and to their CMD, and a –4 size penalty on Stealth checks. A Large creature takes up a space that is 10 feet by 10 feet and has a reach of 5 feet. (-2+7=5rp)
• Horned Ogre. Though exact reasons are unknown, some half ogres upon maturity grow a pair of robust horns from their massive foreheads. Horned half-ogres receive a primary 1d6 Gore natural attack. Whenever a horned half-ogre charges, he deals twice the number of damage dice with the gore attack plus 1-1/2 times its Strength bonus. [1+2=3rp]
• Oni Ogre. This particular ogre-kin shares ancestry with infamous Ogre Mages and inherits some of their magic powers, as well as a slightly bluer skin tone. The Ogre-kin as a standard action can use a spell-like abilities identical to Alter Self spell, usable once per day, plus one additional time for every 5 lever he possesses, with the caster level being the Ogre-kin level. (2+2? for growing uses=4?)
• Troll-blood. This ogre-kin is a descendant of a very rare artificial bloodline of Troll-Ogre hybrids. The ogre-kin is able to regenerate wounds very quickly, gaining Fast healing 1 and additional +1 for every 5 levels, up to a total regeneration 5 at level 20. The common heritage with trolls is not without cost. Ogre-kin and base land speed is lowered by 10ft per round. Troll-bloods receive double damage from fire and acid attacks and these types of damage can only heal by conventional means. (6+3? for growing but weakness to fire and acid is quite a big nerf, so a -4? = 5?rp)
• Skilled as a human. Some half-ogres, look so normal they are hard to distinguch from normal men and grow up in a normal, human, environment. As Humans, they gain an additional skill rank at 1st level and one additional skill rank whenever they gain a level. (4rp)
Languages: Common, Giant. Half-ogres with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: dwarven, goblin or orc.
Why I don't want the half-ogre to be morel like an a real ogre? Because story wise they are not "real" half-ores. They are an artificial race, and there are enough of them around to make their own offspring.
I think some of the ancesteral degenerations are way, way too flash of insigth is not for PCs deciding a d20 once pr Day is over the top. And so is regeneration, broard kin and large size i think.
Otherwise looks good.
I am generally skeptic to using the race point system as it seems with out any balance to me. And if it is GM only any way? Why bother with a system.
True, Probably should not scale flash of insight, it is powerful enough as it is. Regeneration is not however, since the half-ogre can be killed with fire or acid easy enough, and damage from fire and acid are not affected by fast healing. A scorching ray will no longer do the 4-24 fire damage to him, but 8-48.
Keydan,
I think you've done a better job with the High Goblins. The Deep Goblins still seem too Duergar-like to me. I'm not a fan of your Brutlings, and your Ogre-Kin are still severely messed up.
Here's a breakdown of your RPs for your races:
- Standard Ability Scores 0RP
- Medium Size 0RP
- Standard Languages 0RP
- Normal Speed 0RP
- Low-Light Vision 1RP
- Skilled Hunter 2RP
- Survivalist 1RP
- Nature Runner 2RP (Fast + Terrain Stride)
- Sworn Enemy 3RP (Hatred + Ancient Foe, -1RP for not getting the +2CMB from Ancient Foe)
- Total:10 (Advanced Race)
- Standard Ability Scores 0RP
- -2 to Charisma -4RP
- Medium Size 0RP
- Xenophobic Languages 0RP
- Slow Speed -1RP
- Darkvision 60' 2RP
- Light Sensitivity -1RP
- Sure Footed 1RP
- Tunnel Fighters 5RP (Static Bonus Feat + Static Bonus Feat +1RP for the ability to use when adjacent {for Outflank} or flanking {or Back to Back})
- Natural Armour 2RP
- Tough Kind 2RP
- Master Engineers 1RP
- Craftsmen 1RP
- Total:8 (Monstrous Race)
- Greater Weakness Ability Scores -3RP (+2 Int, -2 Wis, -4 Cha)
- Decreased Intelligence (x2) -9RP
- Advanced Strength 4RP
- Advanced Constitution 4RP
Side Note Here: I picked an array that fit best without going into munchkin territory first. You could have gone with a standard array and then worked in a -2 to Wis and a -4 to Cha for a total of -13RP, but that's basically cheating your way through an Ability score array in my book. This way, you've only gained -4RP.
- Medium Size 0RP
- Slow Speed -1RP
- Xenophobic Languages 0RP
- Darkvision 60' 2RP
- Light Sensitivity -1RP
- Tough Hide 3RP
- Fearless 1RP
- Ferocious 4RP
- Unstable 7RP (Frenzy + Frenzy + Bite + Bite +1RP for only taking a -2 AC Penalty)
- Total: 11RP (Monstrous Race)
- Greater Weakness Ability Scores -3RP (+2 Int, -2 Wis, -4 Cha)
- Decreased Intelligence (x2) -9RP
- Advanced Strength (x2) 9RP)
Side Note Here: Going with the Paragon array and taking an additional hit to Charisma works out to the same point total.
- Low-Light Vision 1RP
- Powerful Grip 6RP (Even though you claim that it's like a standard feat, no feats that I am aware of allow you to use an oversized weapon as if you're a creature one size category larger. Hence, the greater rating. You could use an oversized greatsword, for example, and do 3d6 damage with it instead of 2d6. That's way better than any extant feats.)
- Giant-Like 0RP
- Standard Languages 0RP
Total Before Degeneracies: 4RP (Advanced Race; Monstrous with Degeneracies)
I'm not going to rate all of your degeneracies here, but they're still screwy. Not every Ogre-Kin will have the same bump, so they're not all equal (and you're looking at a total RP of anywhere between +6RP from the base and +37RP [that Troll-Blooded thing gets delayed Fast Healing 5 {no matter how you slice it, that's 40RP{!!!}, and you could maybe justify giving it a -4RP for having it be a graduated level-based bonus, and it also gets you an Elemental Vulnerability, which is only -2]). Horned Ogre should be 5RP (Gore attack + Gore attack + Gore attack + 1-1/2 charge damage). Oni-Ogre has another level-based bonus, which will be another wonky increase with a high total RP cost. My best advice to you is to build a solid base race and completely ditch the wonky degeneracies. They're just not being implemented well. They should all be +XRP (where X is one single value; 4, for sake of ease). That would make your current base Ogre-Kin 8RP consistently. As it is right now, it's a super-munchkin race.