Infernal Binder and Demons' Summon Ability


Rules Questions


The Infernal Binder sub-school of Conjuration for Wizards has this ability:

Assume Control (Su)

At 1st level, you can attempt to gain control over a summoned creature by disrupting the bond between it and the caster who summoned it. You must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) equal to 10 + the summoning caster’s level. If you know the summoned creature’s name, you receive a +2 circumstance bonus on the check. If the check is successful, you can control the summoned creature as if you had summoned it for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1 round). This does not increase the duration of the original summoning. The original summoning caster can attempt to regain control of the summoned creature as a standard action by making a caster level check against your caster level + 10. When your control ends, the creature reverts to the control of its summoner.

At 9th level, you can use this ability to bargain with called creatures as if you were the caster who conjured them. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

How does this interact with a demon's ability to summon others of its kind? Say if the PCs were fighting a Babau, which, on its first turn, summoned another Babau. Would the Infernal Binder be able to use his Assume Control ability to take control of the summoned Babau?

Sovereign Court

In general summoned creatures can't use their summoning ability as per the Conjuration school in the Magic chapter. So unless that babau is called rather than summoned it wouldn't matter. If the babau was called or you're on the abyss then it'd be no different than stealing the summons from a normal caster. Caster level check would be DC 17 in this example.

--Vrock, Paper, Scissors.


Yes; the outsider-summoning abilities work similarly to the summon monster spells (apart from being a standard action and lasting 1 hour).


Universal Monster Rules wrote:
Summon (Sp)A creature with the summon ability can summon other specific creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature’s entry). Roll d%: On a failure, no creature answers the summons. Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A creature summoned in this way cannot use any spells or spell-like abilities that require material components costing more than 1 gp unless those components are supplied, nor can it use its own summon ability for 1 hour. An appropriate spell level is given for each summoning ability for purposes of Will saves, caster level checks, and concentration checks. No experience points are awarded for defeating summoned monsters.

Comparing the texts, it would appear to be a legitimate use of the ability. Thematically, however, a bit confusing. Strange that a devil-themed character could control demons (or angels, for that matter) but a powerful ability nonetheless. I'd go with it, provided an brief plausible explanation of how it works in game.


Great, thanks guys!

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