Player looking for advice on the Summoner and stuff

[Azernak0]

I have been playing 3.5 for probably years but have never played a PF game. That is apparently going to happen sometime soon. To quickly explain: I am not an idiot but I haven't done this system before. I have always been interested in the dude that makes other dudes to fight the bad dudes for him, so Summoner is an easy pick. Starting at level 1.

I have been hum and hawing over Wild Caller or Master Summoner. They are polar opposites when it comes to what they focus on (lotsa dudes or THE big dude). Not really sure which to take.

The DM has also mentioned that he wants to do Mythic. I know less about Mythic than I do the Mermaid language so any advice there would be great. What should I do for Mythic stuff for a Summoner?

Is there anything I need to know about the Summoner or in general as a new player?

Cheers.
-Azernak0

[XMorsX]

Master Summoner is definately stronger. That being said, you may annoy the rest of the table with your horde of summons. Wild Caller is also a beast and probably more fun to play for all of you.

Read this mythic guide. You definately want to take the Archmage path. For the master summoner, dual path it with the Hierophant for the mighty summons ability, for the wild caller dual path it with Guardian for the various companion boosting abilities.

Summoner is a very strong class, the vanilla summoner is pretty straight-forward to play too. As a new player to the class, I suggest you avoid the master summoner archetype, many monsters at the table can seriously slow down the game for the other players.

[Azernak0]

Thanks for that. I have done Summon Classes before as a 3.5 Druid. Of course, it was more Summon, AC, and Wildshape which still took quite a while (AC Trip, Summons attack, Wildshape attack-grapple). I guess keeping it with just one big dude might make it simpler. It does bug me being a Summoner and just having one big dude. Reminds me of a Druid that has weaker spells, no Wildshape, and just Animal Companion. Of course, it is an entirely different system so I am probably just talking nonsense.

Maybe it is just me missing something fairly large but how is Master Summoner so much better than Base/Wild Caller Summoner? I understand Action Economy but do the Summon Monsters get to be powerful enough to warrant a weenie of a Eidolon?

Should my stats me different based on what I go with? It is 25 point buy as a Half-Elf (that I know for sure: having the half-elf actually be a good pick for a class tickles me from all my years as a 3.5 player). Still torn between Wild Caller or Master Summoner. Wild Caller looks cool just being able to build a big dude rather than select from a list.

Cheers.
-Azernak0

[XMorsX]

Master summoner can ruin an encounter (in a good way for you). You can easly have 10+ SM spell-likes that summon 1d3+1 monsters each with superior summoning, casting them as a standard action. The definition of "wall of meat". You see where this is going. If you are into summoning it is your paradise, no doubt. But the game will run smoother if you just focus on one strong eidolon.

Do not make comparisons with the 3.5 druid. He was a complete powerhouse, you will not meet such a monster at pathfinder because of how polymorph spells got reworked. Instead see the summoner as what it really is: an arcane caster that learns awesome spells like the wizards (haste, spell turning, maze to name a few) but also spots a companion that will oudo the fighter of your party for at least half of his career.

Your stats do not have to look different, seeing though that summoner has medium BAB progression and decent buffs and class features for fighting, you could give the Wild Caller a decent Str score for being effective in melee and providing flanking for your eidolon and your martials when not casting.

Sample arrays:

Wild Caller: 25pt. buy Str:16 Dex:12 Con:14 Int:7 Wis:12 Cha:16
Master Summoner: 25pt. buy Str:8 Dex:14 Con:12 Int:14 Wis:12 Cha:19

Check in this great guide the Half-Elf beat stick build for inspiration. He uses the Eldrich heritage (orc) feat tree.

A quadruped eidolon with pounce and max numper of natural attacks will kick-ass anyday. The fact that you can stack rend and the large evolution and Str boosters and natural armor on top of that will make you feel rediculous compared with your partys' fighter .

[Azernak0]

Thanks for all the advice. It is a party of 5 people (Cleric, Magus, Paladin, Samurai, myself). Since no one had Disable Device or the Rogue skills, I went with Half-Elf Master Summoner with the Eidolon being a Skill Monkey.

The DM had us roll percentile dice to determine pick order for Mythic Paths. I, with my mighty 7, got last pick. It was a toss between Guardian and Marshal. I ended up going with Marshal because it was a "pick now" sort of thing and I didn't want to have to slow down play while I dig through the book. I think it will work well with Rally and having an army of doods anyway.

How the heck does Dual Path work? It is clear that I am going to take it because after reading Archmage I had to wipe my slobber off of the pages from my excessive salivation. We are not Mythic yet but it is some module (heavily modified of course) where the players end up becoming Mythic assuming the survive the Mythic Encounter.

Cheers.
-Azernak0

[XMorsX]

At your first mythic tier, you will choose your first mythic feat. Make sure it is dual path. For more info look here.

You will probably be the strongest person on your table. Remeber that "with great power, comes great responsibility" ;)

Building tips for your msater summoner.

-Take the Arcane Training alternative racial trait, as you will not multiclass.

-Eldrich heritage feats make for great choices. If you are allowed to take teh Wildblooded Primal bloodline, you can add +1d6 to the damage of every attack of your summons and eventually have a flight speed. If you are not allowed to take a wildblooded bloodline, concider abyssal for the added summonings ability (it is the best thing you can get, but until then there is not any particularly useful benefit) and arcane for the familiar and the extra spells.

- Take Superior Summoning and Improved Initiative asap.

- Take Extra Summons at least a couple of times, idealy even more times.

- Quicken spell is the only metamagic feat you will need.

[Azernak0]

Thanks for all the information XMorsX and everyone else. Trying to wrap my head around Mythic is getting the better of me. It always took me a while to fully grasp a new to me system like Tome of Battle or the entirety of PF at this point.

I went with Drow Blooded and Drow Magic rather than Arcane Training. Dark Vision is something that I always go for (too many campaigns I didn't have it and just hated the fact that I didn't) and Faerie Fire is great (it was already the reason why a baddie didn't escape).

I don't want to take Eldritch heritage. It is "Worldwound" setting so thar be Demons abound. 1d6 Electrical damage isn't even going to do damage and end up burning several feats. Superior Summons is a no brainer because daaaayy-um. The DM allowed Boon Companion to work for Eidolon so he will be relevant for a couple more levels.

How useful is Extra Summons? Being able to do it 9 times per day so far seems to be 'enough.' Or should every Encounter have some Eagles flapping about? Considering Boon Companion will keep my Eidolon on part until level 9 (as per DM ruling), is Extra Evolution suddenly more sexy? Does it just become person choice?

Cheers.
-Azernak0

[Azernak0]

XMorsX wrote:

You will probably be the strongest person on your table. Remeber that "with great power, comes great responsibility" ;)

Actually, will Master Summoner be so great with the massive amount of DR that abounds? Summon dudes usually deal flurry type damage, which DR 5 will have mostly bounce.

Cheers.
-Azernak0

[XMorsX]

Azernak0 wrote:

XMorsX wrote:

You will probably be the strongest person on your table. Remeber that "with great power, comes great responsibility" ;)

Actually, will Master Summoner be so great with the massive amount of DR that abounds? Summon dudes usually deal flurry type damage, which DR 5 will have mostly bounce.

Cheers.
-Azernak0

It is certainly a concearn. There is always an effective approach to every situation though. You can summon creastures that bypass DR like Lantern Archons or creatures with one big attack that is relevant even with DR (Bison, Ankylosaurus, Tyrannosaurus to name a few). You can summon monsters that bring utility, like Lillend azata for bardic performance and Succubus for enchantment spells, so that DR becomes irrelevant. As a last resort you can use your summons as meat-wall.

And you are always an arcane caster to boot.