Item hardness and hp confusion


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

How many hp and hardness does a 2handed weapon made of adamantine, and with a + 3 enhancement bonus, have?


A regular 2-handed blade has 10 hit points and hardness 10.

Making it out of adamantine adds 1/3 hit points, for 13 hit points.

+3 enhancement adds +6 hardness and +30 hit points.

The total then is 16 hardness and 43 hit points (but see below).

I'm not entirely sure if the regular adamantine hardness of 20 applies to weapons (the "Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points" only mentions "varies by material" for armor). If this does apply, then the hardness will be 26 rather than 16.

Sczarni

From the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:

Adamantine: What's the hardness of a metal weapon made out of adamantine?

The answer depends on whether the weapon is entirely adamantine, or partly adamantine and partly some other material.

Table 7–12 on page 175 of the Core Rulebook lists common weapon hardness and hit points. The table assumes the weapon in question is made of leather, wood, and/or steel, as appropriate. According to Table 7–13, steel has hardness 10, which is why completely-steel weapons on the table have hardness 10.

Hafted weapon normally have a wooden haft rather than a metal haft. Even a steel-headed weapon such as a battleaxe has a wooden haft, so even though its head is made of a material with hardness 10, its weakest part is the haft, which has hardness 5, therefore the weapon is listed on Table 7–12 as having hardness 5 (because it is assumed that you're aiming at the weakest parts when trying to destroy an object).

For a weapon that is entirely made of one material (such as a one-handed blade), if that material isn't the standard material for that weapon, use that material's hardness from Table 7–13 instead of the default hardness on Table 7–12. For example, a wooden longsword has hardness 5, a glass longsword has hardness 1, and an adamantine longsword has hardness 20.

For a weapon that isn't entirely made of the same material (such as a wooden-hafted weapon with a metal head), if that material isn't the standard material for that weapon, use the hardness from Table 7–13 for the weakest material in the weapon instead of the default hardness on Table 7–12. For example, an ice-hafted (hardness 0) steel-headed (hardness 10) battleaxe has hardness 0 overall because it is only as strong as its weakest part. Likewise, an ice-hafted adamantine-headed battleaxe has hardness 0, just like its ice counterpart. ("Use the weakest material" is a relative term, as a battleaxe probably includes a small amount of leather, but its primary materials are wood and steel, so wood is its weakest material.)

Note that this "weak spot" of a hafted weapon doesn't affect the material properties of the weapon's head. A wooden-hafted adamantine-headed battleaxe still counts as adamantine for its attacks, is still of masterwork quality and has a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls, even if it is just as easy to sunder as a common steel battleaxe. The GM is also free to rule that damage to the weapon which only affected its head (such as dipping it into a shallow pool of acid) should use the head's hardness instead of the haft's hardness.

—Pathfinder Design Team, 10/28/13

So, as an example, +3 Adamantine Greatsword = hardness 26, HP 43.

(the bonus 1/3 HP from Adamantine would take effect before the +10hp/+1 enhancement)

Shadow Lodge

Sooo why a wooden haft be replaced with a metal one?

Why is it assumed you wouldnt use metsls to replace weaker materials?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jacob Saltband wrote:

Sooo why a wooden haft be replaced with a metal one?

Why is it assumed you wouldnt use metsls to replace weaker materials?

Different characteristics.

You want a weapon with a specific weight distribution in its different parts, that is thick enough to allow you a good grip, that your sweat will not make too slippery, that will not freeze you sweat when it is cold and fry your fingers when it is hot and so on, that don't transmit the impact of hitting something with full force to your hand and so on.

Several modern axes have a steel handle, but that handle is covered in rubber to avoid the problem that I depicted above. Doing that with pseudo medieval technology isn't easy.

Essentially: our ancestor have tried it and found that it didn't worked well. You can find a few examples of weapons where a handle or haft that usually was made with wood was replaced with metal, but they are a rarity.

With the resources available to a player character you could probably convince a weaponsmith to build you a custom made weapon with a all metal haft. It would be a one of a kind weapon, it would have a higher crafting DC and I would say that the crafter wouldn't be capable to take 10 wile crafting it (experimenting is distracting).
Surely it isn't something that you would buy from a shelf.
So, if you are willing to wait the time needed for the crafter to make your weapon I would allow it in a home game.
It would have a different weight from a normal version of the weapon (iron weight more than 7 times what wood weight) but it would be available.

In PFS you are limited to what is in the books, so you would be out of luck there.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Jacob Saltband wrote:

Sooo why a wooden haft be replaced with a metal one?

Why is it assumed you wouldnt use metsls to replace weaker materials?

Different characteristics.

You want a weapon with a specific weight distribution in its different parts, that is thick enough to allow you a good grip, that your sweat will not make too slippery, that will not freeze you sweat when it is cold and fry your fingers when it is hot and so on, that don't transmit the impact of hitting something with full force to your hand and so on.

Several modern axes have a steel handle, but that handle is covered in rubber to avoid the problem that I depicted above. Doing that with pseudo medieval technology isn't easy.

Essentially: our ancestor have tried it and found that it didn't worked well. You can find a few examples of weapons where a handle or haft that usually was made with wood was replaced with metal, but they are a rarity.

With the resources available to a player character you could probably convince a weaponsmith to build you a custom made weapon with a all metal haft. It would be a one of a kind weapon, it would have a higher crafting DC and I would say that the crafter wouldn't be capable to take 10 wile crafting it (experimenting is distracting).
Surely it isn't something that you would buy from a shelf.
So, if you are willing to wait the time needed for the crafter to make your weapon I would allow it in a home game.
It would have a different weight from a normal version of the weapon (iron weight more than 7 times what wood weight) but it would be available.

In PFS you are limited to what is in the books, so you would be out of luck there.

Quoted for TRUTH!

I would add that I might be a nasty GM and tell you that a metal-hafted weapon could have a slight penalty to disarm defense, and/or might freeze up in a sheath, in case of very cold weather... That sort of stuff. Simply allow you to do it for the hardness and then letting you feel a little of the consequences and reasons for not doing it as a standard issue.

Sczarni

My Dwarf Magus in PFS uses a +3 Impervious Adamantine Dwarven Waraxe (complete with Fortifying Stone) to sunder things with. It is a one-handed weapon, but nothing in its description (and it has no picture) imply whether it has a metal haft or a wooden one. Since one-handed metal-hafted weapons exist in Pathfinder, the hardness of my Waraxe goes up or down depending on what GM I have. I keep both totals handy in case it's ever needed (22 and 37), though personally I feel that a Dwarven Waraxe is the perfect candidate to be made entirely out of metal.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Item hardness and hp confusion All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions