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Generally, in situations like this regarding opposed checks, it is better for the GM to roll for the player and keep it hidden until it's relevant. You can't really tell whether your dagger is hidden well any more than you can tell how good your disguise is before you've tested it. If you're undistracted and confident in your skill, you can take 10, of course.
Note that daggers a get a bonus to the sleight of hand roll. You could take 20 as well.
Reading blahpers' post, he might disagree with the taking 20.
The problem with taking 20 on such a check is that you have no way of knowing when to stop fiddling with it (i.e., when you rolled a 20). But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, and I don't know what RAI is in this instance.
To perhaps convince you otherwise:
Searching taking 20 is fairly accepted right?
If I look for my glasses in my room, I take extreme care. I don't find them. However I never truly know if I failed to find them (rolled below 20) or they simply aren't here.
The logic of not knowing when you've tried enough to hit 20 is applicable to most circumstance, preventing 20 from ever being taken.
Hm.. but now to combat my own point: all your search rolls are essentially cumulative. If any one of them succeeds you're gravy. However concealing undoes each previous attempt with a new attempt. Now I am unsure lol.
Tricky, isn't it? The best solutions I can come up with on this involve house rules, so they're of little use here.
Edit: An idea. Are there cited examples of taking 20 on an opposed skill check? The only one I can think of is taking 20 on Perception in a room with someone using Stealth, and Stealth has its own share of problems.
Blahpers is right. You can only take 10 because you don't know which time would be the 20. As Beopere pointed out, in other cases you only need to get a 20 on any one try, not the last try.
As to perception vs. stealh, you can take 20 on perception if you can meet the other requirements. It doesn't matter if it was opposed or not.
Blahpers is right. You can only take 10 because you don't know which time would be the 20. As Beopere pointed out, in other cases you only need to get a 20 on any one try, not the last try.
As to perception vs. stealh, you can take 20 on perception if you can meet the other requirements. It doesn't matter if it was opposed or not.
I support the logic of this statement. Do you have a rule backing for it? As I can recall the only requirement be there is no penalty for failure, which all the cases discussed meet.
Relevant text I can find:
When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you a d20 roll enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).
Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties). Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).
Requirement on time and penalties for failure. Nothing about success last time versus first time.
If you have the ability to accurately assess your work, you should be able to take 20 on almost anything.
If you cannot assess how well you've hidden something, it would seems illogical to take 20 on them.
However RAW allows for taking 20 I believe.
Yeah, you might be right.
The problem with taking 20 on such a check is that you have no way of knowing when to stop fiddling with it (i.e., when you rolled a 20). But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, and I don't know what RAI is in this instance.
Take 20? Sure you can. Get your friend to Take 20 Perception to see if he can see it. If his opposed skill is one less than yours, then you made it. Of course, this takes longer. :-)
/cevah
The problem with taking 20 on such a check is that you have no way of knowing when to stop fiddling with it (i.e., when you rolled a 20). But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, and I don't know what RAI is in this instance.Take 20? Sure you can. Get your friend to Take 20 Perception to see if he can see it. If his opposed skill is one less than yours, then you made it. Of course, this takes longer. :-)
/cevah
Ha, oh boy. If it takes 20 turns to have a reasonable expectation of rolling a 20 on one of them, it'd take 400 turns to have a reasonable expectation of both rolling 20s on the same turn. There's gotta be a better way to handle this.
Ha, oh boy. If it takes 20 turns to have a reasonable expectation of rolling a 20 on one of them, it'd take 400 turns to have a reasonable expectation of both rolling 20s on the same turn. There's gotta be a better way to handle this.The problem with taking 20 on such a check is that you have no way of knowing when to stop fiddling with it (i.e., when you rolled a 20). But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, and I don't know what RAI is in this instance.Take 20? Sure you can. Get your friend to Take 20 Perception to see if he can see it. If his opposed skill is one less than yours, then you made it. Of course, this takes longer. :-)
/cevah
Action: Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action.
At 2 move actions/round, Take 20 is 10 rounds, i.e. a minute.
Doing Take 20 Perception 20 times takes 20 minutes.Yep. A pain, timewise, but how long does a High Chr character spend looking at a mirror just to make sure their hair is just right?
/cevah
The Sleight of Hand itself is a standard action, slowing the process, and getting a 20 on Perception won't help if the thing you're perceiving was a Sleight of Hand roll of 1.