I have a FAQ question that could be relevant to the rules.
Let's say I have a custom item, Deliquescent Gloves of Dueling. This gives +2 to existing Weapon Training bonuses, +4 CMD v.s. Disarm, Sunder, and effects causing the loss of grip on a weapon, as well as the ability to keep weapons held while stunned or panicked. It also grants 1D6 Acid Damage on Touch Attacks, and the Corrosive Weapon Property to Manufactured and Natural Weapons used involving the Gloves.
Towards the end-game, I have this amazing +5 Limning Defiant Courageous Ghost Touch weapon.
While wielding this weapon, it should receive the Corrosive Weapon Property. However, the weapon held already has a +10 Base Price Bonus.
Here's what the relevant RAW had to say on the matter:
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.
Emphasis Mine.
I am not sure if the intent is that a +10 Base Price Bonus is the highest you can have on a weapon period, or if that's the highest you can have on a weapon infused with spells and character abilities that grant properties, as it cites via example. RAW, it says the latter, but it doesn't make any mention of items granting properties would fall under the equation it lists.
For this case, would the Corrosive property for this weapon (given via the Gloves) stack with all other properties currently on the weapon, or is it just hopeful thinking/munchkining on my part? (I don't have an actual character that does this, but is just something I thought about when glancing through items.)
Bump.
I guess nobody runs into this kind of issue?
The closest thing I can think of without involving custom items that fall firmly into house territory would be class features or spells that add weapon properties to existing weapons, such as arcane pool or an inquisitor's bane ability. How do those work on maxed-out weapons?
The closest thing I can think of without involving custom items that fall firmly into house territory would be class features or spells that add weapon properties to existing weapons, such as arcane pool or an inquisitor's bane ability. How do those work on maxed-out weapons?
Let me clarify something in my opening post: It's not so much a custom item than it is a combination of two separate items. If the name wasn't so obvious, it was meant to combine the Gloves of Dueling with the Deliquescent Gloves. I'll simplify it by removing the Gloves of Dueling from the equation, and stick with the Deliquescent Gloves from Ultimate Equipment.
In regards to your question, the RAW specifically states character abilities and spells that add special weapon properties are included in the "total modified bonus".
However, my question pertains as to whether properties granted by items falls under this equation. By RAW, it doesn't, meaning it could very well increase a weapon's capabilities beyond the +10 Limit the book cites. Perhaps reviewing the Deliquescent Gloves description would shed light on this situation:
The wearer’s melee touch attacks with that hand deal 1d6 points of acid damage. If the wearer uses that hand to wield a weapon or make an attack with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, that attack gains the corrosive weapon special ability.
The wearer’s gloved hand is protected from the acid ability of oozes, allowing him to use that hand to attack oozes with unarmed strike or natural attack without risk of harm from contact with the ooze. These unarmed strikes and natural attacks never cause an ooze to split.
Bolded the relevant sentence. The italicized portion seems to imply that the attack functions as if it received the Corrosive Weapon property, not the weapon itself.
I reviewed the Spiritualists' Rings, an item that also grants Weapon Property effects, and found an interesting entry in converse with the Deliquescent Gloves:
These four garish and gaudy rings must be worn on one hand, though they take up only a single ring slot. They grant the wearer the ability to commune with and affect the dead in the following ways. The wearer can use speak with dead, as the spell, three times per day. It takes 10 minutes to use this ability.
The wearer can use spectral hand, as the spell, three times per day. The wearer’s weapons gain the ghost touch weapon special ability while the wearer is wielding the weapons. The wearer gains a +4 sacred or profane bonus on saving throws against positive and negative energy effects. The bonus depends on the wearer’s alignment—good-aligned wearers gain a sacred bonus, whereas evil-aligned wearers gain a profane bonus. Neutral-aligned wearers pick either a sacred or profane bonus when the ring is first put on, which cannot be changed later.
Bolded the relevant sentence. The Rings give the Ghost Touch property to the weapon, not to the attack.
With these two cases, which of these would be applicable to a given attack with a +10 weapon? And why/why not?
RAW, it would seem so, since no rule contradicts the text stating that the item grants the property. It's pretty thin, though, almost as thin as saying that a spell-like ability mimicking a spell could grant a weapon property over +10 when the equivalent spell could not.
The rule probably didn't consider items granting weapon properties to weapons. I'm not sure there were any such items in CRB apart from wands and other spell-trigger or spell-completion items. (I don't have CRB handy, and all online references seem to have replaced citations with UE since the latter is the most up-to-date.)
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The +10 bonus-equivalent limitation is a hard cap for all weapons; you can't exceed that even with class abilities or other unusual abilities.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 03/01/13
That "other unusual abilities" is nice catch all. So unless you have an item or ability that specifically allow to bypass that hard cap I would say that the abilities don't stack.
That "other unusual abilities" is nice catch all. So unless you have an item or ability that specifically allow to bypass that hard cap I would say that the abilities don't stack.The +10 bonus-equivalent limitation is a hard cap for all weapons; you can't exceed that even with class abilities or other unusual abilities.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 03/01/13
The bolded parts have gray area and would need more clarification. What qualifies as "unusual abilities"? Is it something that is granted from another strange creature? From a Campaign the character completed? Does an item's properties count as an "other unusual ability"? It's not exactly a defined game term (or terminology that can easily define intent behind its purpose), so its meaning is ambiguous.
In addition, what does it take for something to "specifically bypass that hard cap"? Do we treat it like Death effects, where it has to come right out and say "This is applicable, even with a weapon that has a +10 Enhancement Bonus"? Do we treat it as if an item's abilities have to affect the weapon's bonus? Because the Gloves would still be applicable (RAW, the extra damage applies to attacks the character makes, not the weapons themselves) versus the Rings (RAW, it specifically says it gives the property to your weapon).
@ Blahpers: I've had this similar discussion with my GM on a fight we had. It was our party against a Huge-sized Lightning/Air Elemental. It had an ability that worked exactly like Chain Lightning. Our Barbarian has Witch Hunter, which gives extra damage on creatures with Spell/Spell-Like Abilities. We argued that because it worked like a Spell, it should be a Spell-Like Ability, and the extra damage should apply. The GM said it was a Breath Weapon Supernatural ability, so it wouldn't apply.
It's not much different than the situation described above. You have an item which gives an effect almost identical to a property, but by RAW is not a property and doesn't function as if it were a property (considering the mechanics for it are different from what the property it is supposed to emulate).
Just to try and restate the question (to make sure I understand it): If a non-weapon item grants an enhancement bonus-equivalent property to an attack made with a weapon you wield, will that property still function if the weapon itself already at the enhancement 'cap'?
Personally, I would allow it. But it's a murky area according to RAW.
I don't know that the FAQ quoted would apply because you aren't actually adding an enhancement (temporary or permanent) to the weapon, and so the weapon isn't exceeding the cap. It's already breaking the normal magic item rules, because you could use the gloves to give a weapon with no inherent enhancement bonus the corrosive property.