| insaneogeddon |
'Add +1/2 to the oracle's level for the purpose of determining the effects of one revelation'
"Mysteries
Each oracle must choose from among the following mysteries. Unless otherwise noted, the DC to save against these revelations is equal to 10 + 1/2 the oracle's level + the oracle's Charisma modifier."
So do these stack for DCs?
Is a revelations DC at 8th level (effective 12 due to favored class)
10 + chr + 4
or
10 + chr + 6
??
| AbsolutGrndZer0 |
Just to give you a bit more on "why" the answer is yes to better help you understand, look at the way it's all worded...
'Add +1/2 to the oracle's level for the purpose of determining the effects of one revelation'
"Mysteries
Each oracle must choose from among the following mysteries. Unless otherwise noted, the DC to save against these revelations is equal to 10 + 1/2 the oracle's level + the oracle's Charisma modifier."
Your Mystery is the category that you choose your revelations from.
| Sitri |
I was just looking into this and wanted to clarify as well. There are several revelations that say something like........The target creature must make a Fortitude save or......in the description. This very clearly looks like the save is built in as part of the effect being described. Also, in the channel example given above, the effect of what level you are counting as a cleric is what is driving the DC, so clearly that is good too.
So I am in agreement with everyone here, but is there anything more specific or clear to help make this point? Conversely, is there a good argument to saying these DCs are pre-effect other than just claiming it so. I think I might even be on board with someone saying spell DCs are not part of the effect for spells because of where it is written in the spell description, but it does really appear to be part of the effect for oracles.
I have a first level oracle I have only played once, but some specific clarification on this would really be nice. I intend to put all my favored class bonus into boosting the DC of a revelation, but if I later run into a GM that says it doesn't work that way, all my favored class bonuses will have just been thrown away.
| MyTThor |
I really can't imagine an interpretation that would say you don't get the benefit. I also think the idea that spell DC's aren't part of the effect of spells is right out. The DC of an effect is directly tied to your level, then items that raise your level with relation to that effect raise the DC. Period.
I've never heard anyone interpret it differently.
| MyTThor |
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There are people out there that claim the effective level cannot go beyond 20, because the Oracle class itself does not go beyond 20, so if you're planning to take this character past level 13 you might not want to boost your revelation that much (or at all).
I know people think that way but it's just not supported in the rules. There are rules in the CRB to advance past 20th, and they're not even listed as optional rules. Powers that cap at a certain level say so. In my opinion there's just no support for the idea that advancement ends at 20th, and even less for the idea that powers stop advancing at 20th. So 20th level characters automatically gain no benefit from any (of the MANY) feats, magic items, and abilities that give you bonuses to your effective level for various effects?
Nefreet
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Character Level can certainly go above 20, but I assure you that Class Levels capping at 20 is not a houserule. It is a valid interpretation of the charts in the CRB that cap at 20.
A Cleric, for example, channels for 10d6 at level 19. There is nothing that states what a 21st level Cleric could channel. It may be inferred that the Cleric would channel for 11d6, but that would be a houserule.
Spellcaster levels may still go above 20, as may many other variables, but no class actually does.
Like I said earlier, some GMs interpret this differently (obviously, as the two posters above me do), so YMMV.
| blahpers |
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The rules give the GM the freedom to extrapolate class levels beyond 20 and provide rough guidelines on how to do it. The rules also suggest requiring a character to advance in a different class or prestige class as an alternate method of advancement. The question of whether a class caps at 20 will vary from table to table, and this is by design.
The Morphling
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Character Level can certainly go above 20, but I assure you that Class Levels capping at 20 is not a houserule. It is a valid interpretation of the charts in the CRB that cap at 20.
A Cleric, for example, channels for 10d6 at level 19. There is nothing that states what a 21st level Cleric could channel. It may be inferred that the Cleric would channel for 11d6, but that would be a houserule.
Spellcaster levels may still go above 20, as may many other variables, but no class actually does.
Like I said earlier, some GMs interpret this differently (obviously, as the two posters above me do), so YMMV.
You're right that there's nothing to indicate what the "chart" would say for a hypothetical 21st-level cleric. However, this doesn't mean we don't know what level he is, if he's treated as higher level than his actual class.
A 20th-level Oracle with 20 levels of favored class (aasimar) on his revelation is treated as a 30th level Oracle for the purposes of that revelation. We have no need whatsoever to know what his BAB would be at 30, what his saves would be at 30, how many spells he could cast at 30, or how much his channels would do.
All we need to know is that he's treated as level 30 for the purposes of that one revelation, which scales numerically. We've got the number - it's 20 plus half of 20, which is 30.
Again, the rules say he adds 1/2 to his effective level.
The rules do not say he stops adding them once his effective level hits 20.
Based on what the rules say there's no cap, so there's no cap.