Monk Vow Question

[Davick]

Since vows (Ultimate Magic) may be taken at any level, what happens if a monk takes a vow at level 4 or later?

[Davick]

Since any character with a ki pool can take vows (Ultimate Magic), but the increase in ki is based on monk levels, is it possible for another class to see additional increases in ki from vows?

[Davick]

Since a monk who takes a vow (Ultimate Magic) never receives Still Mind, but the ability isn't described as replaced, is it possible for a monk to take an archetype that replaces Still Mind?

[partyrico]

1) I assume that since "The ability to take these vows replaces the still mind class feature", the player must decide whether they want to get vows eventually at level 1, even though picking up vows can happen at any level.
2) After reading it, I believe the intent was to allow non-monks to take vows, although the other users would just not be able to ever get the still mind feature, should they later pick up levels of monk
3) While RAW this is true, I don't think it follows the intent of the ability

[Nefreet]

Your edition of Ultimate Magic is likely older. There is errata that corrects how Monk Vows work. You cannot combine Monk Vows with an archetype that replaces Still Mind. Check the PRD for the most recent wording.

[blahpers]

Did they errata the fact that any character with a ki pool is supposed to be able to take vows? Since there's no still mind feature to replace in those instances, I can't see how that would work.

[Nefreet]

I do not see where it says that a non-Monk can take a Monk Vow.

Link?

[blahpers]

Link.

PRD wrote:

Monk

Monks are seekers after knowledge, idealists who find unity and enlightenment in the training and perfection of both the physical body and the conscious mind. Many of a monk's powers derive from or rely on ki, a form of supernatural energy inherent in one's spirit.

This section introduces monk vows, which any user of ki can take to increase his ki pool. Following the vows is a new archetype, the qinggong monk, who can learn unusual uses of ki.

Monk Vows

A monk can discipline his body to hold more ki by upholding the strict tenets of a vow. By adhering to his vow's tenets, the monk's ki pool increases by the amount listed in the vow's description. Every vow comes with a penalty or limitation to offset this increase in ki. A monk can take a vow at any level, but it does not add to his ki pool until he gains a ki pool as a class feature. The ability to take these vows replaces the still mind class feature, even if the monk abandons all his vows. (...)

It's pretty contradictory. The rules keep referring to monks, but the section header says that any user of ki can take a vow to increase his ki pool. I've housed my way through this in case someone wants to play it, but I'd like to know whether the section header is erroneous or whether ninjas, rogues, and other characters can benefit from monk vows even if they don't get the still mind class feature.

[partyrico]

I find it weird that a ninja can take an ability that doesn't replace any abilities, unless they start taking levels in monk; that just seems off.

[Nefreet]

They must have forgotten to remove that bit when they errata'd Vows. It probably worked before, since you just "never gained" Still Mind, but now you need to replace Still Mind.

I think it's just for Monks, now.

[7H3LaughingMan]

The errata was to fix the loophole the occurred when Monks took a vow after gaining Still Mind, they where capable of keeping Still Mind and having vows. However they did not remove the sentence stating that any class with a ki pool could take vows, however when they wrote this no other class did have a ki pool. So for now they have two sentences that contradict each other and needs a ruling from Paizo.