Again trying to keep it short in the spirit of the sticky.
FAQ clearly says SLAs are not Spells
FAQ also states that having an SLA counts as the ability to cast a given effect. (Dimension Door example)Several Prestige class have specific spell requirements (Arcane Trickers as an example requires mage hand, agent of the grave animate dead).
Was this kind of requirement what the FAQ was referring to for SLAs counting for prerequisites OR
Does having any SLA qualify the character as having the ability to cast 'Arcane Spells' per say the Dragon Disciple and Mystic Theurge? What about feats that require Arcane Spells?
Yes, maybe yes, and maybe yes.
An SLA of a particular effect allows you to meet a requirement of the corresponding spell - so for example if you were to roll (or be allowed to choose) the mage hand variant ability for Tiefling, it would meet that requirement for Arcane Trickster.
The edit on the FAQ makes that clear.
The other two are "maybe yes" because SLAs can count as divine or arcane depending on their source.
An SLA granted by a class will function as a spell of the type that the class grants (if it grants spells) - so for instance if a Cleric domain grants burning hands, even though the spell is normally arcane, in this case the SLA is considered divine (because it's granted by a divine casting class ability).
If the class doesn't normally grant spells, or the SLA is a racial ability, then the SLA counts as arcane or divine depending on the 'first' class spell list on which it appears. You can see the order of 'importance' in the FAQ here.
So if, say, you had cure light wounds as a racial SLA (don't know of a race that grants it, but as an example) it would count as divine because the first spell list it appears on in order of 'importance' is the Cleric list.
Folks are saying that if an SLA can count as satisfying a spells need, see Dim Door example, it also counts as 'the ability to cast arcane spells'. I am not sure that was the intent of that FAQ. It might have been , but I am not sure because the example was so specific to a given spell affect, and that would directly contradict the FAQ in the same section.
So i want them to clarify, does having an sla, any sla, count as the ability to cast an arcane or divine spell, in the generic sense, vs a specific spell affect.
I understand your concern, but I assure you that is definitely the case.
First point of evidence: If they were not intended to fulfill those requirements, then the second FAQ I linked in my above post would have been unnecessary. What other reasoning would there be to have a method of determining whether the SLA counted as arcane or divine?
The universal monster rules for spell-like abilities states: "Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order."
For spell-like abilities gained from a creature's race or type (including PC races), the same rule should apply: the creature's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.
For spell-like abiities gained from a class, use the spell type (arcane or divine) of that class to determine whether the spell-like ability is arcane or divine. If the class doesn't cast spells, use the above rule for spell-like abilities from race or type.
Edit 7/15/13: Wording changed match the precedent in the universal monster rules for spell-like abilities.
Edit 9/23/13: Wording updated to clarify racial/type SLAs vs. class SLAs.
Second evidence: See ZanThrax's post here, and Sean K.'s follow-up answer immediately afterward.
Arcane Strike requires the ability to cast an arcane spell. Sean states that they almost included Arcane Strike as an example in the FAQ, which clearly indicates that they count as arcane spells.
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that is specific to a specific spell, see the mage hand example and the dim door example. I am looking for something that says it qualify as generic arcane, or divine casting. anything official would be great. Otherwise , just an FAQ update would fix this.There is nothing that says that, because not all SLAs are arcane.
There is something from the developers saying that being able to use a SLA qualifies generically for prerequisites that the corresponding spell would fulfill.
I don't even understand what you're asking. Can you use an example?
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@neferphras:
The design team is aware that the above answer [about SLAs counting for spellcasting prereqs] means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6).
Okay, so the design team has explicitly acknowledged that the ability to use SLAs for spellcasting prereqs can get you into PrC's early. Now let's look at those prereqs:
Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 2nd level or higher.
Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation.
Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.
Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.
What do you think the design team was talking about, if not these?
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ok so as i point out above, many prestige class call out a specific spell
that what they seem to be referring to in the exampleif the prestige class requires you to cast mage hand, and an sla give you mage hand... check your good
if it requires you to cast dim door and you have an sla for dim door check your good.
Agent of the Grave requires you to be able to cast animate dead, if you have sla for animate dead check your good.
no where did they sla counts as the generic 'ability to cast arcane (or divine) spells'
There are PLENTY of Prestige class that require specific spells.
This post from the PDT was specifically in context of SLAs for prereqs; people were trying to say "Well, it doesn't count because an SLA is ONE spell and the prereqs are plural!", and the PDT said that no, it works. If the FAQ only applied to specific-spell prereqs, then this post is nonsense.
In this post, a designer explicitly states that a rogue with minor magic qualifies for Arcane Strike, which has exactly the type of prereq you're asking about (i.e., "generic" rather than a specific spell).
And if you're curious, here's another post from a designer talking about the subject of all these SLA rulings, in the context of questions about PrC's with generic "spells" prereqs.
There's no inference in the quote that I gave you.
It's a direct quote from Sean K. Reynolds, a member of the design team, stating explicitly that the FAQ behaves exactly as you're asking. Arcane Strike requires you to be able to cast an arcane spell (not a specific one, just any arcane spell); Arcane Strike was one of the items they reviewed as a potential example for the FAQ.
At that point I would say that if you're getting table variation from GMs, direct them to the FAQ and then if necessary talk to the person above the GM.
Okay, the reason I got confused was I thought you were asking for evidence that any SLA, no matter the spell, would qualify for "cast arcane spells". And some wouldn't.
But yes, even though the FAQ was about qualifying for a specific spell, they've clearly indicated in multiple cases that it qualifies for prerequisites which say things like "2nd level spells".
I think what you're asking is, for example, "if I have Summon Monster II as an SLA, is it arcane or divine or what?"
In that case, here's the section you want:
"Some abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order."
So a Barkskin SLA defaults to druid, for example.
Only if it's a racial SLA. If it's granted by an arcane class feature - for example, if a Sorcerer could get Barkskin through a Bloodline - then it would be an arcane SLA.