The more I look at dirty trick, the more I like it. The ability to apply blind and entangled seem incredibly valuable. Quick Dirty Trick and Greater Dirty Trick would be required of course.
What are your thoughts on the Dirty Trick CM?
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It's not just viable; it's actually quite good.
You have two ways of going about it:
*Quick Dirty Trick - Advantage: No multiclassing, drawback: You can't get it until 9th level, and need 13 Int and to take Combat Expertise, a feat tax.
*Manuever Master Monk - Advantage: +2 to all saves, gives you Improved Dirty Trick without needing 13 int / combat expertise, effectively gives you an extra attack that can be a dirty trick, available at 2nd level. Disadvantage: Effectively -1 BAB for life of character, lower sneak attack damage / later access to rogue tricks.
I kinda like the 2nd option because it gives a lot of benefits, but it would not be a "pure" rogue build.
You need 6 levels of Monk to get Greater Dirty Trick without meeting the pre-reqs. You lose 3 SA dice,and three talents (though you get three feats which are just as good) but you also delay advanced talents by quite a bit. In return, you don't get all that much the synergizes with a Rogue.
If you went Monk, I would go straight monk with a Rogue dip for Trapfinding. A Monk should be able to handle most of the situations a Rogue could.
P.S. Two-Handed Finesse is less than good. Don't split your attack and damage stats if you don't have to. Go straight STR, or find some way to get DEX to damage. If you do go 2h finesse, don't bother with actually picking up Weapon Finesse until your DEX is at least 6 points (+3) over your STR, before that, it's just not worth the feat.
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I wouldn't do it with Finesse, as you then also need Agile Manoeuvres. Instead, take a look at the Skulking Slayer rogue archetype for half-orcs. The first level ability allows you to perform a Dirty Trick in place of a sneak attack with a bonus on the roll equal to the number of sneak attack dice.
What this means is that with Quick Dirty Trick, a skulking slayer can chain multiple status effects on an opponent. Blind them as the first, causing all subsequent attacks to count as sneak attacks. That allows you to dirty trick again with every attack.
How does a blinded, entangled and (with a hasted attack) sickened opponent sound to you and your party? With Greater Dirty Trick, an opponent can only remove those conditions as a standard action.
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You don't need greater dirty trick though; that just makes it last a little longer. You just need dirty trick on the monk route; blind and stabby stabby. If they take a move action on their turn to remove the blindness, no problem... you still got your "Stabby Stabby" on, and probably better (you have more feats to spend, thanks to not having to have CE and getting an extra feat).
And again, this is just to get more attacks and make the character more "low level" viable. Swift dirty trick is GREAT, but requires 9th level.
I like Skulking Slayer, but that Archtype is better off just using the free feint-on-charge and grabbing Furious Focus+Power Attack. Add in Bludgeoner, Sap Adept and Sap Master and you are a Knockout Machine
At level 9 with just a 16 strength,
Sneak Attack dice: 5d6
Greatclub +2
(Circlet of Persuasion, Duelists Vambraces, Dueling Weapon Property, all add to feint checks)
Your round looks like this:
(1) Start Charge
(2) Free Action Feint
(3) Attack the Target's Flat-Footed AC with a +13 (+6 BAB, +3str, +2 charge, +2 weapon, obviously this can easily get higher)
(4)Deal Non-lethal damage: 1d10+10d8+32 (Avg: 82.5 non-lethal)
Damage breakdown: 1d10 weapon +2 enhancement +4 Str +6 Power attack + 10d8 Sneak Attack and Sap Master +20 Sap Adept
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I like Skulking Slayer, but that Archtype is better off just using the free feint-on-charge and grabbing Furious Focus+Power Attack. Add in Bludgeoner, Sap Adept and Sap Master and you are a Knockout Machine
At level 9 with just a 16 strength,
Sneak Attack dice: 5d6
Greatclub +2
(Circlet of Persuasion, Duelists Vambraces, Dueling Weapon Property, all add to feint checks)Your round looks like this:
(1) Start Charge
(2) Free Action Feint
(3) Attack the Target's Flat-Footed AC with a +13 (+6 BAB, +3str, +2 charge, +2 weapon, obviously this can easily get higher)
(4)Deal Non-lethal damage: 1d10+10d8+32 (Avg: 82.5 non-lethal)
Damage breakdown: 1d10 weapon +2 enhancement +4 Str +6 Power attack + 10d8 Sneak Attack and Sap Master +20 Sap Adept
Feint doesn't fulfill the requirements of Sap Master. While it removes the foe's Dexterity bonus (allowing sneak attack), it fails to make the foe flat-footed. Flat-footed is a very difficult condition to inflict upon someone who has acted in combat. Furthermore, the Dueling Property only applies to weapons to which you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat. Make sure you're reading each option carefully so that you're not giving impossible advice.
I like Skulking Slayer for stacking a LOT of conditions. With Bludgeoner and Enforcer, each nonlethal sneak attack you do grants you an Intimidate check. If you have a cruel greatclub, you can sicken them on the next hit.
A level 9 skulking slayer using my build could use his first attack to inflict blindness on the opponent and the next hit to sneak attack, Intimidating for what is probably more than one round. Alternatively, he could gain a bonus on another Dirty Trick to entangle the foe, or just sicken them to lower their saves. Against a flanked target, he can inflict several conditions reliably, effectively locking a foe down completely.
And of course there's still the swift action feint + charge trick, only with Enforcer you also negate the AC penalty you're taking from charging due to the shaken condition.
Woah, true enough, forgot about that little bit of wording in Sap Master.
I was used to using sap master with Shatter Defenses, so that is my bad.
The build I actually use was the following:
Half-Orc Fighter 1, Rogue(Skulking Slayer) 11:
Racial Trait: Toothy
Str:22 (+1 at 4th and 12th, +2 racial +2 belt)
Dex:12
Con:16 (+2 belt)
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:14 (+1 at 8th)
Feats/Talents:
Fighter 1: Bludgeoner, Power Attack
Rogue 3: Weapon Focus-Heavy Flail (Rogue Talent Weapon Training), Dazzling Display
Rogue 5: Hero's Display, Performing Combatant (Rogue Talent Combat Trick)
Rogue 7: Sap Adept, Rogue Talent: Offensive Defense
Rogue 9: Shatter Defenses, Rogue talent (Strong Impression - Intimidating Prowess)
Rogue 11: Master Combat Performer, Sap Master(adv rogue talent - feat)
Items (82k WBL):
Belt of physical might (Str/Con) +2 (10,000gp)
Full Plate +2 (5,650gp)
Heavy Flail +2 (8315gp)
Headband of Ninjitsu (15,000)
Circlet of Persuasion (4,500gp)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9,000gp)
Ring of Protection +1 (2,000gp)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000gp)
Trapspringer's Gloves (4,000)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5,500gp)
Rest in pocket money and wands or upgrading this list (16,000)
Offense:
BAB: +9/+4
Heavy Flail +15/+10 1d10+20 19-20/x2 (power attack)
Sneak Attack: 6d6 (6d8 on the charge)
Feint Check: +27 (12 ranks, 3 trained, 2 cha, 3 circlet, 5 shifty, 2 headband)
Intimidate: +28 (12 ranks, 3 trained, 2 cha, 6 str, 3 circlet, 2 racial)
Performance Combat: +12 (+2 for BAB, +3 for ranks in perform, +2 cha, +3 circlet, +2 Hero's Display)
Defense:
AC: 24 (10+ Armor+11, Dex+1, Ring+1, Amulet +1)
HP: 106
Fort:+11
Ref:+11
Will:+6
So, the basic idea is that you initiate a charge, Feint as a swift action (+27). If you are successful, you can make a Performance Combat Check as a Free action (+12 versus DC 20). If that check is successful you can make a check to Demoralize all opponents within 30ft. (Intimidate check +28). Now you complete your charge and get sneak attack damage because the target is feinted. You get another Performance check if your charge attack hits to keep demoralizing opponents. After your attack hits the shaken enemy, they are flat footed against your attacks until the end of your next turn.
So,
(1) Initiate Charge
(2) Feint as a Swift action (+27)
(3) Make a Perform Check (+12 vs. DC 20)
(4) Intimidate everything in 30ft (+28)
(5) Complete charge (using sap adept), +19(19-20/x2) 1d10+32+6d8 = 64.5 avg. Gain Offensive Defense (+6 dodge bonus to AC)
(6) Make another perform check to intimidate again at the end of the charge as a free action.
(7) On round two, forgo power attack and hit twice, +20/+15 1d10+38+12d6 = 85.5 per hit, then use your Bite attack +11, 1d4+3+6d6