Making Natural Spell available for all supernatural shapechangers?

[lastblacknight]

LazarX wrote:

I don't see where this benefits the game. From my viewpoint magic is not lacking for power where it is, so I'd have to first see a need for it, and why the game would be better for such a change. The big trouble with blanket rule changes of this scope is that you can't always account for all the floodgates you'd open.

Well, it's an edge case for PFS - obviously in home games there is no issue. But one of my players has a natural shifter boon and I am pre-empting the issue. I just couldn't believe I was the first to flag the notice/comment on this and I looked - I also looked for the right place on the boards to post/highlight the request.

I didn't want to change what I thought was the RAI of the feat; just open it to those races whose natural shifting ability the class ability druids wild shape (su): mimic's.

The example I used was the Kistune, simply because it was the only one I was aware of (and I opened up the thread for comment as I didn't know what impact it might have on the society). I can see why you might not including the sub-school spells - it opens huge door to abuse and re-skinning etc.

So why can't a Kitsune Wizard have the option of taking Natural spell and casting whilst in it's Fox Form? It's actually their own body, the feat didn't make sense. I suspect that there is a reason that the Dev's haven't opened it up - and I respect that - after all these guys and gals have a much bigger view of what is going on than I do and they can better judge the impact of a seemingly small change like opening Natural Spell to also "..or Change Shape (Su):" I would think that since 3.5 it would have come up in review meetings.

Anyway, I am grateful SKR took the time to respond (I was hoping for a different outcome obviously) but now the itch is scratched and I can go on knowing that I contributed constructively to making our game better.

[lastblacknight]

..unless the Dev's want to add to errata and allow it's use for PFS.

[Bobson]

I'm going to flip this around - Why should a kitsune be able to cast spells while in a fox shape? Normally, a Kitsune can wield weapons, but when shaped like a fox they can't. Why should a Kitsune fighter not be able to wield his sword while a fox?

[Sean K Reynolds]

lastblacknight wrote:

..unless the Dev's want to add to errata and allow it's use for PFS.

We're not going to do that, either.

[lastblacknight]

Thanks for considering it.

[Wolf Munroe]

Matrix Dragon wrote:

Wolf Munroe wrote:

I don't see anything in the Beast Shape spells that says a spellcaster can't speak, that part is in the druid's WildShape class feature, so their main limitation on spellcasting would appear to be a lack of proper appendages for somatic components.

Maybe I'm missing some clause somewhere.

What you're missing is the rules for the Polymorph Magic Subschool. They have a list of things that people who polymorph into creatures of the animal type can't do. Speaking and casting spells with verbal or somatic components is part of the list.

Thanks. I -thought- originally that it said that somewhere, and even tried to look at Polymorph Subschool, but I must have been looking in the wrong place.

[Matrix Dragon]

Bobson wrote:

I'm going to flip this around - Why should a kitsune be able to cast spells while in a fox shape? Normally, a Kitsune can wield weapons, but when shaped like a fox they can't. Why should a Kitsune fighter not be able to wield his sword while a fox?

Kitsune fighters actually benefit a lot from getting Fox Shape because it leads into the Vulpine Pounce feat. Sure, it isn't the same as wielding weapons, but it is something.

On the flip side, kitsune spellcasters don't really benefit much at all from having Fox Shape even though a lot of players want the feat at least for flavor purposes. It just seems odd considering that in the 'real life' legends kitsune were often far closer to being spellcasters than warriors.