Hardin Steele
Goblin Squad Member
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All of us have played games that awarded achievements for doing certain things, finding places, reaching new heights or crafting new items.
In World of Warcraft the Achievement System drives what a log of guilds do for repeat runs in Raids (seems unfun to me repeating the same ol’ same ol’, but many of my old guildmates loved raiding the WoW way). Darkfall uses advertised “Feats” to award “prowess” (the currency used to purchase skills)...complete a task, get prowess. Get prowess, buy skills.
In PFO here are some of the things that could award “Achievement Points” or “Merit Badges” or whatever Goblinworks wants to call the reward for meeting certain milestones/benchmarks with the game. Some are in crafting, some in exploration, some for combat, some might be for sieging. Others still may be for completing partial or complete blocks of skills that, put together, represent the larger “Class Completion” achievement, which if the current schedule is followed will take about 2 ½ years to complete.
Achievements can also be on different organizational levels. Of course there will be individual character achievements at the core of any achievement system, but there could also be achievements at the company level, settlement level, within a faction, and in a Kingdom.
Some examples of achievement levels and categories:
Individual achievements:
Exploration (sites visited - ruins, NPC locations ‘i.e. inns, taverns, cities, villages and hamlets’, peaks and passes, graveyards, bind points, scenic overlooks, cave entrances, waterfalls, bridges)
Items found (treasure chests, tool boxes, armor racks, books, caches, keystones and cornerstones ‘engraved stones providing some lore for buildings and ruins’)
Gathering (number of units, variety of resources, all in a category, 100, 200,and 300 first gathers for player)
(Use your imagination for the following categories)
Refining
Crafting
PvE combat
PvP combat
Diplomacy
Economics
Role Playing
Class activities
Contracts
Company achievements:
Membership
Materials
Influence
Faction achievements:
Membership
Faction Level
Settlement achievements:
Population
Economics
Civics
Hex control
Alliances
Outposts
Kingdom achievements:
Population
Economics
Civics
Hex control
Alliances
Settlements
| ZenPagan |
I for one hope that they either
a) Never even consider putting achievements in game
or as I suspect a) will not happen
make achievements not give any in game advantage
Sorry achievements to my mind are just meaningless grind and I don't want to have to kill 1000 boars to get some reward which I absolutely have to have to be competitive.
Before anyone says merit badges I would point out that mostly those are going to be rewarded for actions you would be carrying out anyway such as use parry ability 100 times to get improved parry merit badge. Not the same thing at all as for the kill 1000 boars thing I would actually have to go looking for boars rather than just be going about my normal business.
As I said keep achievements as "fun" only then those that like them can pursue them to their hearts content and those that hate them can just ignore them
Urman
Goblin Squad Member
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As I said keep achievements as "fun" only then those that like them can pursue them to their hearts content and those that hate them can just ignore them
Some people are achievers - they find that kind of stuff fun. If XP only measures the length of time we've played the game, some people will want/need other milestones to give them the boost they normally get from levels.
I liked unlocking titles in LotRO. I liked the way my kills were tracked in Fallout. I think giving achievements for a wide range of milestones is fine. A few may give feats, most might not. I'm mostly an explorer in games, but a little achievement is good, too.
| ZenPagan |
ZenPagan wrote:As I said keep achievements as "fun" only then those that like them can pursue them to their hearts content and those that hate them can just ignore themSome people are achievers - they find that kind of stuff fun. If XP only measures the length of time we've played the game, some people will want/need other milestones to give them the boost they normally get from levels.
I liked unlocking titles in LotRO. I liked the way my kills were tracked in Fallout. I think giving achievements for a wide range of milestones is fine. A few may give feats, most might not. I'm mostly an explorer in games, but a little achievement is good, too.
I did say I don't mind them putting in achievements as long as people are not forced to do them. Coercion in this respect coming down to there being pieces of equipment or abilities unlocked by achievements. I don't care a fig about titles they have no game impact so quite happy for people to get titles from achievements.
I merely do not want to see a situation where I feel I have to go off and kill 1000 boars because if I don't I can't get some ability or equipment I need.
Everyone should be able to play the game in a way they find fun and achievements where rewards have game impacts have a tendency to require people to take part in those bits of the game that they do not find fun and would rather not touch with a 10 foot barge pole.
Andius
Goblin Squad Member
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In my opinion achievements are a staple of gaming and releasing a game without some form of achievements would be needlessly alienating and negatively impacting a huge amount of potential players. I would even so far to say it's part of the minimum viable product because some players are going to want to hop right in and start racking up achievements, and they don't take as much to develop as a lot of other systems.
I don't feel like players should ever need to feel obligated to hunt down achievements, just like they should never feel obligated to craft or gather from resource nodes. That doesn't mean it can't offer meaningful rewards though. For instance if after slaying 1000 goblins you get the title "Goblin Bane" and any fear effects you use on goblins have a greater chance of success, that could be a meaningful reward, but not so meaningful you're going to feel shafted if you hate fighting goblins.
Urman
Goblin Squad Member
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I don't feel like players should ever need to feel obligated to hunt down achievements, just like they should never feel obligated to craft or gather from resource nodes. That doesn't mean it can't offer meaningful rewards though. For instance if after slaying 1000 goblins you get the title "Goblin Bane" and any fear effects you use on goblins have a greater chance of success, that could be a meaningful reward, but not so meaningful you're going to feel shafted if you hate fighting goblins.
That's a good example - a reward directly tied to the act that earned it.
Andius
Goblin Squad Member
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I would disagree that achievements are a staple of gaming. I sure do remember plenty of gaming before those things came around. ;)
While the modern achievement system may not have been around I'm sure you them bet things like collecting all 120 power stars in Mario 64, collecting all the golden skulltulas in Ocarina of Time or other similar things that challenged the gamer to achieve deeds outside what was required to beat the game.
The achievement system is just a logical and extremely popular step in the evolution of gaming like the transition from 2D to 3D graphics or the removal of having to start over from the beginning when you ran out of lives.
Releasing a game without achievements is a step backward unless you have a strong game enhancing reason not to.
Nihimon
Goblin Squad Member
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I don't feel like players should ever need to feel obligated to hunt down achievements, just like they should never feel obligated to craft or gather from resource nodes.
My concern is that Crafting and Harvesting will require the player to invest XP into their character's skills first, whereas grinding Achievements won't require that kind of investment. In essence, it's a big hole on your character sheet that everyone will feel obligated to try to fill.
Hardin Steele
Goblin Squad Member
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None of these should give any sort of mechanical advantage, but they should and usually do get players "off their butts" to go do something they might not otherwise do. I didn't think much of the WoW achievements for Raids where the Raid team would "Kill the Dragon boss without any player taking fire damage". But I did enjoy the exploration achievements (when you fully explored the old world and Northrend you were rewarded the cool looking "World Explorer" tabard.
Fun stuff, and a reason to see all the different waterfalls, or bridges, or mountain peaks. Seems a shame to have a player do so much and never tell them how much their enjoyment of the world is appreciated.
Andius wrote:I don't feel like players should ever need to feel obligated to hunt down achievements, just like they should never feel obligated to craft or gather from resource nodes.My concern is that Crafting and Harvesting will require the player to invest XP into their character's skills first, whereas grinding Achievements won't require that kind of investment. In essence, it's a big hole on your character sheet that everyone will feel obligated to try to fill.
I'd prefer the achievements list (especially for exploration, but a few others) DID nag you to get out of the safety of your settlement, if you are inclined to think of it that way. You certainly can never leave the safety or your settlement...but would hope the untouched achievement list piqued your curiosity a little and might get you to head out the gate after getting some experience under your belt.
Andius
Goblin Squad Member
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Andius wrote:I don't feel like players should ever need to feel obligated to hunt down achievements, just like they should never feel obligated to craft or gather from resource nodes.My concern is that Crafting and Harvesting will require the player to invest XP into their character's skills first, whereas grinding Achievements won't require that kind of investment. In essence, it's a big hole on your character sheet that everyone will feel obligated to try to fill.
The people who see "holes in their character sheet" as an itch that must be scratched are generally the kinds of people who love achievements. It's not like you'll be sitting there crafting or PvPing and thinking "Damn, if I only had that bonus to fear effects against goblins I would be so much better at this!"
I personally hope we have so many "holes in our character sheet" we could never fill them all.
Areks
Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to see achievements unlock some of the lower end cash shop stuff. Achievements need to be meaningful, so unlock aesthetics like skins and stuff that you would otherwise have to buy.
I do agree there is an achievement niche that needs to be filled, but it shouldn't be an obligation. Titles are another achievement possibility. I could see a culmination of achievements giving a very very minor advantage but that's it.
Andius is right. Not having them in the game would be a mistake, but you have to make them meaningful but not mechanically advantageous.
Areks
Goblin Squad Member
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I personally hope we have so many "holes in our character sheet" we could never fill them all.
While I disagree with the analogy to "holes" as I see my character's realization as a series of conscious choices throughout his or her lifespan, I whole heartly agree that there should never be a comfort zone for your character. That breeds boredom, keeping players engaged is key to PfO's success.
These "holes" are hopefully meaningful ways to progress your character in a sensible direction, not just time sinks.
Take titles for instance. If I belong to a religious faction, there is probably some right of passage or something that my religion has a ritual for. Kind of like after Muslims visit Mecca, making the Haj, they are known as Haji. Something a bit more complex than a simple pilgrimage, but that would be a faction based achievement that is meaningful to a character of that faction if they are interested in RP.
RP while not mechanically advantageous, is more meaningful than a simple time sink.
Andius
Goblin Squad Member
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Pilgrimages can actually be pretty meaningful if done right. The first test in GL's tryouts on Freelancer was a sort of "pilgrimage"... to one of the most dangerous systems in the game in your starter ship without docking anywhere along the way.
I could see an achievement being something like "Travel from point A to point B and do X equipped with nothing but a pilgrim's garment and a quarterstaff."
That leads me to another point. There shouldn't be company / kingdom achievements. They should just have the ability to create and award decorations like in EVE, and maybe an achievement building tool at some point after OE.
Bringslite
Goblin Squad Member
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Andius wrote:I don't feel like players should ever need to feel obligated to hunt down achievements, just like they should never feel obligated to craft or gather from resource nodes.My concern is that Crafting and Harvesting will require the player to invest XP into their character's skills first, whereas grinding Achievements won't require that kind of investment. In essence, it's a big hole on your character sheet that everyone will feel obligated to try to fill.
I am not certain that the OP was advocating mechanical advantage for achievements, what ever they might be. Hardin, plz correct me if I am mistaken.
@Nihimon
I am curious why you feel the way that you do in the above quoted post. I am not sure why someone feeling a "lack" for not accomplishing some in game achievement is a valid argument for not having them. There will, or should be tasks/achievements that (for example) certain factions ask you to complete to prove you worth and raise your rank. You certainly won't feel a hole in your sheet for not performing those things.
Why shouldn't there be some in-game marker that says "Bringslite slew 100 Trolls" or "Nihimon has mastered every mage spell available"? What does it hurt?
Should it be a fully fleshed system at the get go? Probably not.
Hardin Steele
Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to see achievements unlock some of the lower end cash shop stuff. Achievements need to be meaningful, so unlock aesthetics like skins and stuff that you would otherwise have to buy.
Take "Explorer" for example. Say there are some cash shop items that would only available to the players that have explored the map in some significant way. Maybe stepping into every hex, fully exploring 100 hexes, or finding 1,000 different points of interest. Any one of those three might make the player eligible to purchase a cape or tabard or hat that only explorers could get. Then that group might have their own little in game club. Some groups (the Pathfinders) would definitely be more likely to hit those achievements than in town crafters, but the in town crafters would be much more likely to get the "smelted 10,000 iron ingots" achievements allowing that characters to get a cash shop smith apron. Each subset of players will have their own interests, so there should be things available to them that others may not be interested in.
Shane Gifford
Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I really don't like the apparent suggestion from Hardin of "you unlocked this achievement, now you have the privilege of paying us more cash!" That would rub a lot of players the wrong way. Additionally, achievements would lose a lot of value if people could just pay cash for the achievement rewards. I would concur that achievement rewards and the cash shop should be kept entirely separate.
Aeioun Plainsweed
Goblin Squad Member
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I would like the game to keep track of everything my character does whether they are achievements or not. Of course grinding something to get a mechanical benefit isn't ideal. But it would be cool if the game could register and calculate every system feedback, kill, interaction(ie contract) etc. So that the player could see everything that can be done in the game. I know it would be big list but worth it in my opinion. At some point it would give the meaning of achievement even if you get no other system feedback or benefit from doing something other then see the list of what your character has done.
Copper longswords crafted: 4
Goblins killed: 7
Humanoids killed: 6
Elfs killed: 2
Assasination contracts made: 5
Assasination contracts finished: 3
Wildbloom harvested: 40
Grand halls captured: 4
etc
No mechanical benefits, no linking, Maybe someone wants to rp an elf killer and do unsanctioned pvp on elfs, but I wouldn't think that would be a problem
Lhan
Goblin Squad Member
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Something similar to the WAR Tome of Knowledge would be my preference, but without all the rewards that go with it. The reason for this is I would prefer to look on "achievements" not as discrete events or attainments, but rather as the evolving story of my character in the River Kingdoms. It'd be great to be able to look and see how many goblins I have killed (or how many times I have been killed by them), how far I have wandered or how many herbs I have gathered. If I gain a few achievements along the way for doing these things then great, but I would like them to have been done for other reasons than just racking up the titles. If we are all about meaningful game play then killing those 1000 or 10000 goblins should be an end in itself for in game reasons, such as fighting off escalations, and the achievement just the icing on the cake.
I have no objection to cosmetic awards (and I agree that they should not become cash shop items) as they will actually fulfil a function in game too. If I want to buy a sword, I'm more likely to buy it from the guy wearing the blacksmith's apron - he obviously crafts a lot and should be rewarded for it. I don't, however, want to see mechanical awards doled out for hitting landmarks, or we are just instituting a secondary XP system that works in exactly the same way as traditional MMORPGs, except this time instead of "go and collect 10 rats' tails" it's "go and kill 10000 rats". In addition, even though I like Andius' idea about goblins and fear effects, too often when such ideas are implemented we see people having great ideas for the first 30% of the rewards, and then the rest become unbalanced, either because they are totally worthless or because some kind of power creep rears its ugly head. It's easier just to not go down that road from the start.
Bringslite
Goblin Squad Member
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As far as rewards for achievements go, let them simply be titles in a list that you can toggle on or off for others to see. No mechanical benefits. No extra (besides the list) art assets for limited markets.
Some could be possibly added to your name, unless that is too much, or left off. Maybe you could sport one title at a time only. "Troll Slayer" or "Arcane Master".
Hardin Steele
Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I really don't like the apparent suggestion from Hardin of "you unlocked this achievement, now you have the privilege of paying us more cash!" That would rub a lot of players the wrong way. Additionally, achievements would lose a lot of value if people could just pay cash for the achievement rewards. I would concur that achievement rewards and the cash shop should be kept entirely separate.
Shane, you misinterpret the gist of the "unlock". A player can sit on their butt in their settlement, never staying outside the walls. That's fine for him, he might be a crafter, or super casual, or despise PvP. But for the adventurous type who want to go out and see the world and complete an encyclopedia of exploration feats, those completions unlocking a cash shop optional purchase (cape, tabard, fancy hat) that would allow the player to show off a little, and make GW a little cash. (You can't begrudge a commercial enterprise making a little coin.)
That guy in town that never leaves, the cook that makes all the awesome buff food you love to have while adventuring the world and running away from monsters and bandits? After he cooks X variety of items, and 100 of each, he can buy a cool chef's hat to show the world what an awesome cook he is. Explorer guy thinks cooking is a waste of time, but he is sure glad he can but the buff food from someone in town!
If that idea rubs some players the wrong way, they are free to go code their own MMO and see how hard it is to generate some extra income.
AvenaOats
Goblin Squad Member
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I have limited input on "achievements" as I've seen them designed in other mmorpgs. To me they seem to be a laundry list to tick off for no apparent reason other than to waste time. But that is sort of the essence of the completionist type of personality I believe who strive for this? That said, it must be asked: "Why and what value do such people get from completing these so-called lists?" How does doing that make them feel rewarded?
Some ideas on that:
- Some people like these things when they unlock "lore trivia" that forms a scattered narrative, background reading on the world to more immerse with learning about the local area and it's hidden stories, histories and so on. I think that does work for some people and requires a small team of writers to hide this stuff around for people to go and find out the next jig-saw in the story puzzle or just find little nuggets that amuse or intrigue in the telling. Very good for RP perhaps too as an aside addition.
- Perhaps the Easter egg is the hidden goodie that all would want but only a few will find? Maybe it is a unique or limited run of cosmetic items or skins that can be worn and show that the finder is a rare breed of tenacious explorer uncovering every blade of grass in the hunt/quest for this fabled treasure.
- If you're talking numbers, some people have a collecting mania it seems to me and must "collect" the rarest butterfly and add to their list of thousands in their "tome of knowledge". Now I could not think of anything more banal, but the banal as per the lore idea above fleshes out the world some more if there is time for such details. I would say this knowledge might give the tiniest bonus perhaps to the expert who becomes a master at slaying a particular mob. In fact this reminds me of that idea of 10,000 hrs to learn a skill. Whereas that's not strictly the case, it's actually 20 hrs of intense learning, chopping the skill down into bits etc then you're pretty handy. But for that complete mastery of grainier and grainier perfection it goes way up to 10,000 hrs. Perhaps this sort of achievement of a tiny bonus to slaying mob type x fits the bill here?
- The basic achievement is actually just a way to provide some guidance on players and what they can set goals to go for I guess? So maybe this basic form of milestone/sign-posts is already in the skill-system?
- In themepark games in early levelling you flashy "level up! / killed 25 - 50 - 100 - 200 - 500 - 1,000 orcs , crafted your first pig !" type of messages (yes the pig was showing how breadcrumb meaningless these are in substance to me at least) which perhaps are a good thing for the new player at the opposite extreme of achievements, the learning phase where RAPID gains are made? I personally find these a bit gamified for a sandbox, but no doubt some form of player-engagement and recognition feedback on progress in some form would be good here?
I'm about done.
In terms of GW monetizing, it's not a bad idea to think if some players like working for carrots (even if tbh they're really small pixie-dust carrots) ie that red horse for eg from yore! :) Maybe if you love horses, you might be tirelessly ranching and an achievement recognizes you as a master Horse-Whisperer and only the "MHW"'s can buy a MTX-red-horse "Red Ravisher". ;) IE not only is it MTX it's prestige-art MTX even.
=
Final thought: I REALLY LIKE Ryan's idea of a BIOGRAPHY
If this can be created in a very organic way then that is the best achievement of all - it would appear to have more intrinsic meaning and that is the best form of achievement at least as far as my own preferences go ie provides little written nuggets that are snapshots of your experiences that collectively form your own narrative from recollection via these "memory jolts".
AvenaOats
Goblin Squad Member
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@Wurner: Gah, can't find it, I'm sure I did read something of a short paragraph of thoughts on that. Maybe it was only referring to the mmorpg.com open q&a:
The quest log of Warhammer Online is an aspirational-level goal for Pathfinder Online.
I really thought there was a comment on buiding a biography somewhere. I could be mistaken afterall. Sorry about that.
Nihimon
Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon
I am curious why you feel the way that you do in the above quoted post. I am not sure why someone feeling a "lack" for not accomplishing some in game achievement is a valid argument for not having them. There will, or should be tasks/achievements that (for example) certain factions ask you to complete to prove you worth and raise your rank. You certainly won't feel a hole in your sheet for not performing those things.
Why shouldn't there be some in-game marker that says "Bringslite slew 100 Trolls" or "Nihimon has mastered every mage spell available"? What does it hurt?
First...
ZenPagan wrote:... achievements to my mind are just meaningless grind...I tend to agree.
The thread I linked to in that response really goes into my reasons for being concerned about "the grind" in PFO. It's a complex issue with no simple answers.
One of the features of PFO that most excited me was the fact that I would be spending my play time doing things that I wanted to do for purely organic reasons, rather than grinding out the content the developers had set up for me in order to advance my character. Every single time I ever clicked a harvest node in DarkFall in order to gain Prowess, I thought about this feature of PFO and wanted it even more. If an Achievement system ends up diminishing that feature, I'm going to be incredibly disappointed.
I have no objection whatsoever to "Bringslite slew 100 Trolls", etc. as long as they're only benefit is Pride Points. But, if that Achievement grants Influence, then suddenly PFO will be a grind-fest and I really don't want that to happen.
Nihimon
Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to see achievements unlock some of the lower end cash shop stuff.
Live from GamesBeat 2013 - there will be new video! (Nightdrifter's link to the video)
In that presentation, Ryan mentioned they were modeling their Cash Shop system on Turbine's. Turbine lets players grind out achievements in-game to earn Turbine Points, which are their Cash Shop currency. I wonder if Goblinworks intends to include that particular aspect of Turbine's model. Maybe I should ask them... :)
Bringslite
Goblin Squad Member
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Bringslite wrote:@Nihimon
I am curious why you feel the way that you do in the above quoted post. I am not sure why someone feeling a "lack" for not accomplishing some in game achievement is a valid argument for not having them. There will, or should be tasks/achievements that (for example) certain factions ask you to complete to prove you worth and raise your rank. You certainly won't feel a hole in your sheet for not performing those things.
Why shouldn't there be some in-game marker that says "Bringslite slew 100 Trolls" or "Nihimon has mastered every mage spell available"? What does it hurt?
First...
Nihimon wrote:ZenPagan wrote:... achievements to my mind are just meaningless grind...I tend to agree.The thread I linked to in that response really goes into my reasons for being concerned about "the grind" in PFO. It's a complex issue with no simple answers.
One of the features of PFO that most excited me was the fact that I would be spending my play time doing things that I wanted to do for purely organic reasons, rather than grinding out the content the developers had set up for me in order to advance my character. Every single time I ever clicked a harvest node in DarkFall in order to gain Prowess, I thought about this feature of PFO and wanted it even more. If an Achievement system ends up diminishing that feature, I'm going to be incredibly disappointed.
I have no objection whatsoever to "Bringslite slew 100 Trolls", etc. as long as they're only benefit is Pride Points. But, if that Achievement grants Influence, then suddenly PFO will be a grind-fest and I really don't want that to happen.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I pretty much agree that "grinding" is not a favorite activity for some people. I also agree that it could be left out of the "Influence" racket without too much complaint.
Some people with more free time who enjoy playing and the "grinding" to accumulate material gain, can be fulfilled through harvesting/gathering. Others, the "Achievers", could "grind" to add to their list of Accomplishments.
Neither of those things would have to give an unfair advantage to people that spend more time in-game and would like something to show for it.
I am still leaning toward "Influence" being related to things that are done in game and not being a set "gain" based only on having an active account. That is my personal opinion though. What I want, in the end, is what ever will be best for the health of the game in general.
Nihimon
Goblin Squad Member
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I am still leaning toward "Influence" being related to things that are done in game and not being a set "gain" based only on having an active account.
I'm hopeful that Influence will be a natural side-effect of spending XP - in essence, that it will be a measure of how much XP that character spent while a member of that Company/Settlement/Nation.
| Alarox |
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Achievements (in this sense) only add to a game by making you believe you're accomplishing something when there is nothing else you would feel proud of accomplishing. Really no point in adding them to a sandbox game like this one where you set your own goals, and they come naturally from interacting with the world and other players.
Themepark MMOs lack almost anything besides, well, themepark content, so this is supplemented by giving you more "things to do" via achievements. There I can see it is justified since an achievement is essentially more themepark content.
The only other use of achievements I've seen has been as a way to gauge what you've accomplished and mark your progress through a story. In Pathfinder Online, just have an in-game journal that automatically records certain events. Or let the player freely write in one.
Lam
Goblin Squad Member
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OK,
At work, I am known as the guy who starts sentences with the word, "no", lower case, but "no".
This proposal is NOT true to DnD nor Pathfinder, but may have merit.
I think there is power, almost need in requiring some achievements.
Consider, a character needs to make N caps before moving to beret, and M berets before advancing to 'hat with bill', and K billed hats before bowler hat or top hat or what ever is next.
At the same time there is extra achievements. After N caps, and achievement skill[above], 10 N allows hats dyed red(but no important 'in game' advantage), 30 allows yellow, .... 1000 allows a special color (True green which does not fade?). [OK this 'proper' Green may have a role play advantage].
Within all the development lines there are steps, say know and use flame before "one die fire ball. This does lead to a pyromaniac trying latest technique, randomly (and using up magic pool for the day, but "I" think there is merit in these small achievements.
In traditional RPG, the character can suddenly take fireball at level 7 without ever having any previous fire skills.
If on wants to juggle, don't start with chainsaws. But juggling nerf balls 10,000 times does not hep with china saw juggling.
Small achievements are vital to the next step, large numerical achievements are boasts,, not impacting game mechanics.
THERE SHOULD BE A G*****S BOOK OF RECORDS -- for these mundane, not game impacting achievement records. Small interest, but it will keep some playing and paying. There is more than one carrot in this game.
randomwalker
Goblin Squad Member
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I too like the idea of
-defining a list of achievements/noteworthy events
-making a biography of these
"killed 13 rats" and "made 5 swords" are not noteworthy events.
joining/changing settlements, certain milestone skills/badges/recipes, visiting every hex on the map, your first pvp kill/bounty/assassination, your first max quality item, your first million gp, your first <incursion boss X>, every war and siege, etc
The purpose would not be a bragging list but actual emotional attachment to the character: reading through the biography should bring up good memories.
as an illustration:
For my WoW character some 5 years ago, what I remember now is: my friends characters, the first week of playing, buying the first (and second) mount, joining the guild, the first Onyxia and Molten core wins, the first epic weapon drop, first stealth run through the alliance capital...