Can the mymidarch magus use spell combat with a bow

[williamoak]

So, I've got a few questions. Hopefully I'm not beating a dead horse. My search-fu has revealed no conclusive answer. I' hoping to get this faqed, so FAQ this if you agree with me.

Question 1:
Can the mymidarch magus use spell combat with a bow?

There is no provision for using spell combat with a bow, which seems to be the intent of the myrmidarch (bow using though). Some have argued that you can "let go of the bow as a free action, cast, go back to the bow" but I don't agree with this interpretation since it would allow a magus to use a two handed weapon (which definitely is NOT legit).

If the answer is NO, I want to be sure how it can be used.

Question 2:
How does one use ranged spellstrike?

So, if I cant spell combat, how can I use ranged spellstrike? My assumption in this: at level 4, when you cast scorching ray, you get one free attack with your bow. At level 11, you get as many ranged attacks as rays.

Since ranged touch attacks have no provisions for "keeping charge", I have a hard time seeing how it could be used otherwise.

[ArmouredMonk13]

Question 1:No. Spell Combat says you specifically need a free hand, and using a bow would be essentially the same as a 2h weapon, unless you had 3 hands so you had a free hand. But even if you have the 2 levels in alchemist for a free hand, spell combat specifically states you must use a melee weapon.

Ultimate Magic wrote:

Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.

Emphasis is mine.

Question 2:You have it right.

[williamoak]

Now, when you do get to 11th level, do you really get to do as many attacks as rays? Lets say I cast scorching ray (which would give 3 rays), do I get to shoot 3 arrows, despite the fact I couldnt normaly shoot 3 arrows?

[ArmouredMonk13]

No, I seem to have misread Question 2.

Ultimate Combat wrote:

At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost. This ability replaces spell recall and improved spell recall.

Nothing in this says you get extra attacks. However, if you have rapid shot you can get 3 rays off with 3 arrows.

[williamoak]

But see, that's the thing, under normal cases you cant even attack with ranged spellstrike. You cast the spell, then what? You cant full attack (since you cant spell combat, and you've used your standard action), and you dont get a free attack like with a regular touch spell. As written, you cant use ranged spellstrike for it's intent. Especially since you cant delay the shot until the next turn.

[Bigdaddyjug]

The reason Spell Combat doesn't work with the bow is because the Spell Combat ability specifically states it only works with light or one-handed melee weapons, and nothing in the myrmidarch archetype contradicts or changes this. The myrmidarch appears to be designed as a switch-hitter magus, with the ability to use a ranged weapon with Spellstrike, or a melee weapon with Spell Combat.

Ranged Spellstrike works because the ability says it does. You can remove one hand from the bow as a free action, cast your spell, replace your hand as another free action, and then make your single attack. You're only going to get as many attacks as your BAB will allow. Just because the spell allows you to shoot multiple rays does not mean you will get to make multiple ranged attacks with the bow. Because of this, you might be better off using single ray spells until your BAB is high enough to allow you to make multiple ranged attacks.

[nate lange]

that is definitely a poorly written archetype...

there's 3 ways that i can see to interpret that:

1. the strictest RAW reading possible- ranged spellstrike is pretty worthless... it does not modify spell combat, allow you to 'hold a charge' for a ranged touch/ray, or provide a bonus attack, so the only possible usage would be if you were wielding a light or one handed melee weapon (so that you can use spell combat) that can be thrown (like a dagger or shortspear) so that you have an available ranged attack to use (or by casting a swift action or quickened spell).

2. the most reasonable RAW reading possible- ranged spellstrike says you "can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack" (emphasis mine); spellstrike provides a bonus attack to deliver the spell, therefor ranged spellstrike (since it defaults to the mechanics of the base ability) provides a free attack with which to deliver the spell. with this reading, the 11th level power is where the poorly written/functioning part really comes in... since spellstrike only provides a single bonus attack, and we're sticking to RAW, it will only work if you can find a way to combine it with spell combat (see reading 1, plus quickdraw...).

3. most likely RAI- this is supposed to modify spell combat also and was poorly written. you should be able to cast a multi-target ranged spell and full attack (at -2 to every attack) while wielding a ranged weapon. (you could also argue that its supposed to grant multiple free attacks, but that negates the -2 penalty from spell combat, and would arguably let you use full BAB on each, and thus should be avoided, since its clearly superior to actually using spell combat).

i think #2 is the best option and that's the one i use when GMing (though, as i said, the 11th level power is problematic). i'm definitely flagging this one for the FAQ.

clarifying 11th level problem:

Ranged Spellstrike wrote:

At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell

emphasis mine. this aspect explicitly, specifically only works when casting is combined with a full attack action- in the same round, since

Ranged Spellstrike also wrote:

Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost

the only ways to do that are to cast a swift action or quickened spell, or use spell combat. that's why the ability could only be used with thrown ranged weapons (which could be used with spell combat), or with swift action spells...that's extremely limited, unless someone wants to rule on this (please). a provision to use spellcombat with bows or other ranged weapons seems like it must be RAI, but its definitely not currently supported by the RAW

[williamoak]

I like your summary of the situation nate, though there is one thing to note: spellstrike doesnt provide a free attack, it simply changes the nature of a pre-existing free attack (that is normally provided, as specified, by the touch spell). Spellstrike clearly says it replaces something that already exists ("instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon"). I guess it could be argued that each attack provided by the beam is tranfered into a free weapon attack (for the 11th level ability) but that would get really iffy once the character started getting quickened spells.

[nate lange]

its actually 2 separate issues (i amended my previous post, it should be a little more clear now).

issue #1. does spellstrike grant a bonus attack? i suppose you're right- it does not; it does change the touch attack you get as part of casting into a weapon attack that you get as part of the casting. based on that change, ranged spellstrike changes the ranged touch attack you get from casting into a ranged weapon attack that you get as part of casting. no problem there (in line with option 2 above).

issue #2. the 11th level ability clearly states that it can only be used "when using a full attack action"... that's where it falls apart because the archetype hasn't made any provision for making a full attack and casting in the same round.

[williamoak]

Eh, I hate it when I find things like this. There are several archetypes that SUGGEST they should modify/include abilities but dont. Another good example are all the ranger archetypes that lose favored enemy, but keep things like quarry & master hunter. I think I'll start assembling a list of archetypes (and associated classes) that modify one ability, while not modifying all associated abilites. Maybe start a generalized FAQ.

In any case, i'll focus on the task at hand.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

The archetype works perfectly fine and does everything it's supposed to do, just not with 2hd ranged weapons. No bows or crossbows but works great with throwing knives, blowguns, darts, axes, etc.
The myrmidarch is great for a throwing build not an archery build.

[williamoak]

I would agree with you, if it werent for the fact that the fluff talks about the bow specifically. Plus, thrown weapons are very hard to use effectively.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

williamoak wrote:

I would agree with you, if it werent for the fact that the fluff talks about the bow specifically. Plus, thrown weapons are very hard to use effectively.

The fluff so rarely matches with the crunch. Thrown weapons are easy, they just require a little resources to make optimal.

[Horselord]

Don't forget about the sling! Everyone forgets about the sling... Crossbows can also be fired one-handed.