|
The best mention of this I could find was here, but there wasn't a follow up response.
Since page 18 is legal for listed feats from the Animal Archive, can Familiars swap their starting feats for ones they qualify for as a starting Familiar, as mentioned in the text at the top of page 18?
I expect that this swapping of feats should be very restrictive, but there was a very good reason for this text. The best example I can think of is critters that get the Weapon Finesse feat when they can already use either STR or DEX with natural attacks. This makes this a wasted feat. It could be swapped for something like Toughness and not break the Familiar.
I propose that the swaps should be restricted to those feats listed on pages 18-19 (except Familiar Spell) in the Animal Archive and the Core Rulebook animal feats listed in the Druid section. This should prevent anything too crazy but still provide some valuable customization options.
|
Only familiars i think.
Familiars come hard coded with a feat from their species, and they only get one feat, so the only way they can get the Archive feats is to swap out.
Companions get to select their feats, and get multiple feats. Having the Animal archive come out is no different than a new rules source. Since you can't retrain a critter, your only option afaik is to release the companion from service, and then pick it back up. This means it will only have your bonus feats until you can retrain it.
|
The best mention of this I could find was here, but there wasn't a follow up response.
Since page 18 is legal for listed feats from the Animal Archive, can Familiars swap their starting feats for ones they qualify for as a starting Familiar, as mentioned in the text at the top of page 18?
I expect that this swapping of feats should be very restrictive, but there was a very good reason for this text. The best example I can think of is critters that get the Weapon Finesse feat when they can already use either STR or DEX with natural attacks. This makes this a wasted feat. It could be swapped for something like Toughness and not break the Familiar.
I propose that the swaps should be restricted to those feats listed on pages 18-19 (except Familiar Spell) in the Animal Archive and the Core Rulebook animal feats listed in the Druid section. This should prevent anything too crazy but still provide some valuable customization options.
I believe that Mike Brock has ruled that a familiar that trades out Weapon Finesse does not get Dexterity to attack rolls, but I don't have the quote available.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The best example I can think of is critters that get the Weapon Finesse feat when they can already use either STR or DEX with natural attacks.Just curious, which ones in particular?
Dexterity: Temporary increases to your Dexterity score give you a bonus on Dexterity-based skill checks, ranged attack rolls, initiative checks, and Reflex saving throws. The bonus also applies to your Armor Class, your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Tiny or smaller), and your Combat Maneuver Defense.
I'm pretty sure they attack with their dex bonus too but i can';t find it.
|
I believe that Mike Brock has ruled that a familiar that trades out Weapon Finesse does not get Dexterity to attack rolls, but I don't have the quote available.
It is HERE.
Mike, I'm interested in knowing how this will effect familiars who normally get Weapon Finesse. That feat is completely redundant for familiars, because it is written into the familiar feature that they use Dexterity or Strength, whatever is higher. Is it as good as it sounds, or does a familiar who gives up Weapon Finesse lose access to this feature?If a familiar gives up Weapon Finesse, they lose access to this feature.
|
|
I believe that Mike Brock has ruled that a familiar that trades out Weapon Finesse does not get Dexterity to attack rolls, but I don't have the quote available.It is HERE.
Mike, I'm interested in knowing how this will effect familiars who normally get Weapon Finesse. That feat is completely redundant for familiars, because it is written into the familiar feature that they use Dexterity or Strength, whatever is higher. Is it as good as it sounds, or does a familiar who gives up Weapon Finesse lose access to this feature?If a familiar gives up Weapon Finesse, they lose access to this feature.
Well that's kind of harsh. Giving up the weapon finesse feat is getting something for nothing only because taking the feat gets them nothing for something.
|
|
Seems reasonable to me. If you want your familiar to deliver touch attacks, then let it keep Finesse.
Unless it didn't start with finesse, in which case it attacks with its dexterity anyway. So the hedgehog familiar effectively has weapon finesse AND a feat, while the more thematically dexterous weasel has to pick one or the other.
Not that this affects my plans for a magus who chucks his hedgehog in a fastball special... Cy the Younger comes with Athletic as a feat.
|
Seems reasonable to me. If you want your familiar to deliver touch attacks, then let it keep Finesse.
Yeah... seems perfectly logical. If you want Dex to attack rolls, you shouldn't give away the feat that gives Dex to attack rolls.
Seems reasonable to me. If you want your familiar to deliver touch attacks, then let it keep Finesse.Unless it didn't start with finesse, in which case it attacks with its dexterity anyway. So the hedgehog familiar effectively has weapon finesse AND a feat, while the more thematically dexterous weasel has to pick one or the other.
Nobody ever said the rules of this game made any sense. :P
|
|
Yeah... seems perfectly logical. If you want Dex to attack rolls, you shouldn't give away the feat that gives Dex to attack rolls.
If you want dex to attack rolls either
1) don't give up the feat that adds dex to attack rolls or
2) never have the feat that gives dex to attack rolls to start with, give it up, and still have dex to attack rolls AND a cookie.
Still seem logical?
|
|
Yeah... seems perfectly logical. If you want Dex to attack rolls, you shouldn't give away the feat that gives Dex to attack rolls.If you want dex to attack rolls either
1) don't give up the feat that adds dex to attack rolls or
2) never have the feat that gives dex to attack rolls to start with, give it up, and still have dex to attack rolls AND a cookie.Still seem logical?
Nobody ever said the rules of this game made any sense. :P
EDIT: I'm going to assume that Hedgehogs (and other finesse-free familiars) have an unspoken racial ability to use Dex to attack rolls, thus removing their need for the Weapon Finesse feat. That's the simplest explanation I can get that removes rule contradictions. :P
|
|
EDIT: I'm going to assume that Hedgehogs (and other finesse-free familiars) have an unspoken racial ability to use Dex to attack rolls, thus removing their need for the Weapon Finesse feat. That's the simplest explanation I can get that removes rule contradictions. :P
It's not an unspoken racial ability. It's right there in the rules for familiars (PRD link).
Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons.
|
|
EDIT: I'm going to assume that Hedgehogs (and other finesse-free familiars) have an unspoken racial ability to use Dex to attack rolls, thus removing their need for the Weapon Finesse feat. That's the simplest explanation I can get that removes rule contradictions. :P
It's not an unspoken racial ability. It's right there in the rules for familiars (PRD link).
Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons.
The rules contradiction comes into play when removing the Weapon Finesse feat (which isn't necessary for a familiar to use Dex to attacks) also removes the Dex to attacks.