Newbie questions for a dad playing with his sons


Advice


Hey there,

First I apologize for the basic nature of the questions but I can't seem to either get it or find what I need. I recently purchased the beginner box and am now going through a level one campaign with my boys and I'm wondering if I'm doing some things right.

With monsters, how do you play them right? Couple questions...

1. If I see the following:
Melee spear +4 (1d6/x3)
Ranged short bow +8 (1d4x3)

Does that mean max damage could potentially be 22 and 20 respectively? I ask because that's one of the encounters in a level one scenario? If so, I played it right but my oldest pretty much went from 10 hit points to -7 and was a little distraught lol.

2. Small Lightening elemental and others...

In the encounter last night if a trigger gets pulled the elemental gets upset. Character pulled the lever, we rolled initiative, player wins, attacks, full damage (12 hp) elemental dissipates. Did I do that right?

What about in the case of an Imp? How do you know or get guidance on special attacks, or what they would typically do?

I looked them up online and I think I got the details but I don't have any of the books right now. Any tips or guidance you could provide I would really appreciate. I'm looking to build a good adventure for the boys.


Toadie wrote:

Melee spear +4 (1d6/x3)

Ranged short bow +8 (1d4x3)

This means that, in melee, the monster fights with a spear. You roll a d20, add 4, and compare to the armor class of the person he's trying to hit. That's the attack roll.

The information in parentheses is for the damage roll. If the attack rill is equal to or higher than the AC of the character he's attacking, you roll a d6; that's your damage roll and the number of hit points subtracted.

The number after the slash is the critical multiplier. If the result of your attack roll, before adding the +4, is a 20, then you get to roll three d6s. The extra damage represents a devastating critical hit.

If the monster is fighting from range, you follow the same process with the short bow.

So your absolute maximum damage with the spear is 18 (if you roll 3 sixes) and with the bow, 12.

As an encounter design note, weapons with crit multipliers higher than 2 are dangerous at 1st level, since a critical hit will most likely end an encounter in one swing and might kill a low-level PC outright.


One thing to remember as a new GM is that the game rules are, in effect, only SUGGESTIONS on how to run the game.

Unlike traditional board games its not you versus them , its all about telling a fun, adventurous story ...

...so the "rules" arent there asa "both sides get a fair game" balance; if you're playing a game with kids, the heroes should (usually) come out on top, albeit after hardship and struggle (and the occassional loss).

With adults its a bit different of course, its all about what kind of story you want (as agroup) to tell.

.... so while the rules will help you build that story, the GM can ignore them whenever he wants to if he/she thinks the players wont enjoy what happens according to the rules.

No one will send the rules police around !

If you think your children would fine some of the encounters too challenging, then by all means change stuff...for example, you could ignore the critical hit capacities of the monsters weapons. There's nothing to stop you giving the players extra hitpoints either :-)

Also,if you dont have the rules for a monster, then you should happily make them up!
For example, if you want an imp thats about as tough as a goblin ,then you can use the statistics of a goblin, just describe it differently. Maybe it flys instead of runs, but at the same speed. Instead of a bow and arrow it fires fire bolts at exactly the same to-hit and damage....and so on.

Imagination and fun is the key. If you're sneaky you can even put in some education (like maths puzzles, or snippets of history or geography.)

Also, dont forget to plumb your favourite tv and movies for fun bits. The rolling ball from Raiders of the Lost Ark is often a favourite ., for example, or swinging across a pit ala star wars ., or getting slimed by a ghost ala ghostbusters...and so on..


Just first want to add that although a natural roll of 20 (natural meaning before any modifiers) is a critical threat you then have to roll another attack roll against AC to confirm the crit. So if you roll a 20 and then roll a miss.. this is not a critical hit but just a regular hit.

Monster stat blocks can be a little confusing at first... they are just little abstracts and can often point to other rules.

Anyway an rpg is open to changes and imagination. It will regularly occur that the PCs want to do something that isn't covered well or specifically bt the rules. This is where the rule of cool comes in. There may not be a rule for swinging into combat on a chandelier but that is no reason to deny the action. Make a ruling... decide on sone bonuses oor checks needed and have at it. In this case I would say make an acrobatics check and if successful get the bonuses for charging and for higher ground.

This level of granularity may not be presented in the beginners box... I wouldnt know... but the point is that the rules are there to help provide a framework for player and monster actions.. not to define exactly what they can or can't do.


Joana covered your questions quite nicely. When engaging in combat, initiative is rolled. All creatures involved in the combat roll a D20 plus their initiative modifier (which is their Dexterity modifier, and any other modifiers that apply specifically to Initiative). In a given round, you go from the highest rolled initiative to the lowest rolled.

Let's take your PCs [abbreviated Player Characters, which are the characters your sons play] and your Elementals for example. PCs invade a temple guarded by these Elementals. The Elementals are protecting a switch, and are only told to engage those who tamper with the switch. PCs walk into the temple, and touch the switch. The Elementals get angry, and want to attack the PCs. All characters (and creatures) roll their initiative.

The Lightning Elemental's Stats show that it is extremely fast and reactionary (as is fitting), having a +6 to its initiative. For simplicity and explanation purposes, let's assume the Elementals rolled higher than your PCs. Since they rolled highest on the initiative, they get to go first. They charge your PCs. Look to the offensive part of the creature's stat, which I will reference below.

Small Lightning Elemental Stats wrote:

Speed fly 100 ft. (perfect)

Melee slam +5 (1d4 plus 1d3 electricity)
Special Attacks metal mastery, spark leap

Taking a look at the creature's movement (100 ft flying), it can move up to 200 feet in a Charge attack (though only in a straight line), it has a natural weapon attack, and it has special attacks on top of its regular Slam attacks.

A melee attack generally involves your Base Attack Bonus plus your Strength Modifier as bonuses to the D20 used to hit. The creature's total is normally +2 (with +2 Base Attack), but with the Weapon Finesse feat, it instead adds its Dexterity Modifier to its attack roll in place of Strength, making the total +5.

So when the Elemental attacks, it gets a standard +5. However, since it made the Charge Action, it gets an additional +2 to hit (at the cost of -2 to its Armor Class [abbreviated AC]), granting it +7 to hit instead of +5. There are also Special Attacks to consider, which I shall reference below:

Metal Mastery wrote:
A lightning elemental gains a +3 bonus on attack rolls if its opponent is wearing metal armor, is wielding a metal weapon, or is made of metal (such as an iron golem).
Spark Leap wrote:
A lightning elemental gains a +10 bonus on bull rush, disarm, overrun, and trip attacks when it charges a creature against whom its metal mastery ability applies.

Assuming your Elemental is charging a fighter wearing a Chain Shirt, its Metal Mastery special attack applies to its attack roll. Because of this, the +7 we would normally use for the charge is now +10 (which is a lot for 1st level PCs). The +10 from Spark Leap does not apply because it specifically targets when the Elemental is performing a set amount of combat maneuvers while it is charging, and is a bonus that does not apply to general attack rolls (like the kind we are making here).

So we take your elemental's attack roll, which is the result of rolling a single D20 and adding 10 to the number rolled. If this number is higher than the PC's Armor Class (which you calculate at a base of 10 and add from there with Armor, Shield, Dexterity, and a number of other bonuses), the attack is considered a hit. If the result of the attack roll is a Natural 20, you roll again with the same bonuses as before (more may apply due to special abilities, but there are none to apply) to see if the critical threat is confirmed (which is if you hit the same target number again). Although the stats do not say this, the general rule assumed for natural attacks are that it critical threats on a die result of 20, and the multiplier for damage is X2.

At any rate, the Elemental hits the PC. Now we roll damage. In parentheses, you roll the listed Attack Damage Dice: 1d4 + 1d3 ⇒ (1) + (2) = 3, and add them together. Once the sum is calculated, you subtract this amount from the hit points they currently have.

If you have any other questions, and/or don't have source references, D20PFSRD is one of the best sources to look for in terms of outright organization, so you can get right to where you need to go and look up information relevant to your situation. Of course, asking here again is also a sound decision. Good luck!


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Lord_Malkov wrote:
Just first want to add that although a natural roll of 20 (natural meaning before any modifiers) is a critical threat you then have to roll another attack roll against AC to confirm the crit. So if you roll a 20 and then roll a miss.. this is not a critical hit but just a regular hit.

Gosh, yes, sorry, this. I was trying to be very methodical and go step by step, and I still managed to skip the confirmation roll. :P

Every day, I'm grateful that I started playing back in AD&D and was able to incorporate the rules as the complexity evolved from edition to edition. Starting from scratch in 3.x/PF can be overwhelming.


Joana wrote:
Lord_Malkov wrote:
Just first want to add that although a natural roll of 20 (natural meaning before any modifiers) is a critical threat you then have to roll another attack roll against AC to confirm the crit. So if you roll a 20 and then roll a miss.. this is not a critical hit but just a regular hit.

Gosh, yes, sorry, this. I was trying to be very methodical and go step by step, and I still managed to skip the confirmation roll. :P

Every day, I'm grateful that I started playing back in AD&D and was able to incorporate the rules as the complexity evolved from edition to edition. Starting from scratch in 3.x/PF can be overwhelming.

Lol ditto... 2nd edition with its inumerable splat books character kits and the skills and powersbook taught me all about system mastery... and even then the switch to pathfinder hadour group playing incorrectly in a bunch of areas for a long time. We carried over a lot of assumptions from 3.5


One thing that can help advicewise is to remember that your players, even if you thought you knew your own kids, will often mess up everything you thought would happen within minutes of finding some clue. Or not finding some clue.

Basically, what something means when you have the whole context/story versus what it.... or something else entirely... could mean to those that only have little snippets of the plot, can be so different you'll feel like throwing your notes [and children] out the window.

It's the same problem bad mystery writers have, with completely obfuscated, useless not-clues that point to not at all the "real culprit" that gets discovered at the end, followed by leaps and bounds of logic and retroactive changing of what anything meant to suddenly fit some twist.

In other words expect things to go in completely strange, offside or outright "wrong" directions, and the best thing you can do is learn to roll with it. You never know when what you thought was "obviously pointing at the local thieves guild as the bad guys they should after" will get taken with just as much enthusiasm as proof that there's some idiots in the next town over that would pay mad platinum for talking cows, and they've got JUST the cheap mage spell to con it off if they can figure out how to drive fifty heifers across two provinces.

A good adventure is what people brag about having had after the fact, not something that was planned beforehand.


thanks for the info that is REALLY helpful. It was actually really funny to see them do things I didn't expect so it's working pretty well. I like the idea of making up the rules as well since I was trying to balance it all and some things just weren't making sense.

Thanks again

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