The description makes them sound like Spell Like abilities, but Haunts seem to me to be the very essence of the Supernatural. I didn't catch an obvious label.
Inquiring minds (especially Hardy Dwarves) want to know.
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All primary effects created by a haunt are mind-affecting fear effects, even those that actually produce physical effects. Immunity to fear grants immunity to a haunt's direct effects, but not to secondary effects that arise as a result of the haunt's attack.
Haunts are treated like traps. They are not spell-like or supernatural.
I'm talking about Haunt effects that mimic spell effects.
The saves you make on traps that use spell effects are treated as spells (so a Dwarf would get his Hardy bonus).
So you're saying the saves you make vs a Haunt's effects are also treated as spells?
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I said nothing of the sort.
Some haunts may deal damage in the form of spells. One haunt I ran triggered an area of effect Harm spell. Had there been a dwarf in the party, I would have given him/her their racial bonus on the save. Another haunt triggered a Sleep spell. Had there been any elves in the party, I would have allowed them to resist it.
What is the exact haunt you are referring to? That may help in determining which bonuses should apply and which shouldn't.
Quite a few, as I'm running the Skinsaw Murders. Some are spell effects, some are sort of like spell effects, though there is no actual spell that creates that effect.
From the way the description of Haunts reads, I'm just going to run them as spell/spell like and leave it at that.
Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious in the description, because from a flavor perspective, Haunts would seem to have supernatural abilities (More like a Witches Hex).
Thanks for the input.
Haunts are fear effects, not spell-like. All haunts mimic spell effects, even though they aren't spell-effects, but fear effects. If your PCs blow their Will save, they suffer the effects. It doesn't matter if a haunt's 'spell effect' normally uses another saving throw, it is only Will, as it is only fear... it's not "magic" at all.
@gamer-printer
Are there other mind affecting fear affects that are not classified as supernatural, spells, spell like or extraordinary? (Serious question, not being snarky)
While many Haunts are Will saves, some are not. In this AP some are ranged touch (w/ reflex save) and at least one Fort save.
So, You would not give the dwarf his +2 vs spell/spell like?
Haunts are a very specific mechanic. As far as I know, they haven't been pigeonholed into Sp, Su, or Ex, any more than a farmer swinging a club has been categorized. So rule if whichever way makes sense to you.
Are there other mind affecting fear affects that are not classified as supernatural, spells, spell like or extraordinary?
Intimidate.
Coincidentally, we have just finished that scenario. The haunts were a real pain because they were not magic and could not be turned.
*Snip* So rule if whichever way makes sense to you.
Yeah, I was getting that impression. ;)
Interesting catch on Intimidate. My first thought was Krenshar, but when I looked it up it was both Supernatual and Extraordinary.
*Snip* could not be turned.
Not sure what to make of that... was this using 3.5 rules?
Thanks to everyone for the input. I suspected it would be one of those things with more than one perspective.
We were using standard PF. It is possible that either the scenario or GM made Channelling useless, I wasn't privy to the actual mechanics or thinking behind the encounters. Either way I rather liked it that way. Haunts give the supernatural 'haunted house' a place once more, without all those spooky spirits simply being blasted by the Cleric/Oracle as just a nuisance.
What I do not understand about haunts is the following:
All primary effects created by a haunt are mind-affecting fear effects, even those that actually produce physical effects. Immunity to fear grants immunity to a haunt's direct effects, but not to secondary effects that arise as a result of the haunt's attack.
What are those secondary effects?
Does that mean that a haunt causing a fireball could set a room on fire and this fire could damage fear immune creatures? Because I would have guessed that objects are immune to fear, too and thus the room could not catch on fire.
That was answered by Jim Groves somewhere... Haunts are a little wonky apparently.
That's a very tricky question. In fact its a great question.
I'm going to try to answer, but I might be a bit clumsy, but bear with me.
A primary effect for a haunt can be physical, but in this case its still fear based. So a paladin is not affected by it. However that physical (but fear based) effect can do something that indirectly affects the paladin.
For example: a haunt that triggers a telekinetic effect that throws around characters and objects will not grab or slam a paladin into a wall. It might however pick up an object and throw it at a paladin, injuring them. In this example, what is injuring the paladin is not telekinesis or 'force', but rather the anvil that sailing towards their head at high velocity.
Using that same example, the haunt cannot use the effect to bullrush the paladin. It can however bullrush his ally into the paladin.
Another example: A haunt makes an entire room burst into flame. It does not affect the paladin, because its fear based. It is however physical. So if the paladin were standing in a patch of 'real' oil that had been spilled on the floor, that oil can ignite- and that real oil can produce real flames that will injure the paladin.
The logic is a little tricky sometimes.
I see both examples as problematic: If it is a fear effect it should not affect objects because objects should not be able to feel fear. If it is a physical effect it should affect the fear immune paladin.
So an effect that affects objects but ignores a paladin because he is immune to fear sounds absurd to me.
I see both examples as problematic: If it is a fear effect it should not affect objects because objects should not be able to feel fear. If it is a physical effect it should affect the fear immune paladin.
So an effect that affects objects but ignores a paladin because he is immune to fear sounds absurd to me.
Yep. If a room bursts into flame, I think of the fire from a haunt as more like the objects being thrown, especially if it's setting oil on fire.
I think I'll need to lay some ground rules ahead of time so that my rulings are consistent.
If a room bursts into flame, I think of the fire from a haunt as more like the objects being thrown, especially if it's setting oil on fire.
the point is: How does the haunt manage to frighten the object so bad it flies at you? Or in other words: If its just a fear effect it can't throw anything.