One of my players is using a Sythesist 5/ MotSM 2.
I'm a little confused about a few things, so I'll state the information off his character sheet.
Feats:
Armor Prof (light)
Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk Weapon Proficiency
Simple Weapon Prof
Stunning Fist
Toughness (via MotSM)
Combat Casting
Combat Reflexes
Resilient Eidolon
Extra Evolution
His evolutions are as follows:
Limbs (arms), Limbs (legs), Claws.-- These all come from bipedal
Bite
Flight, Magic (with 1 addtl. point spent for +20 speed)
Skilled, Fly.
When fused with his Eidolon, he has a 20 strength.
Since he has selected the "bite" evolution, he is automatically granted the multi-attack feat. This seems legit to me.
But how does his full attack work?
I'm assuming this:
He makes one unarmed attack as a monk at +10 for d6+5
He makes one claw attack at +8 for d4+2
He makes one bite attack at +8 for d6+2
Does this look right?
It looks one too high (BAB 4 + Str 5 = +9, +7/+7 with secondary natural attacks & multiattack).
Also, and now I'm getting really confused...
He wants to drop the additional point of fly and bite evolution for extra limbs.
He now has four arms.
Technically, does four arms with four claws give him four claw attacks? Can he then make four unarmed monk attacks instead with four said arms?
Damn this combo is CONFUSING.
@Majuba. The eidolon gives him 4bab because of synthesist, and the monk gives him one bab at level 2. Bab 5, not four, yes?
@ Parizzio: ok, there are, as best I can tell, 2 options.
1. Natural attacks only: all primary at full BAB, secondary (if any) at BAB -5 or -2 with multiattack. Simple. In this case, since claws and bite are all primary, everything is at full BAB, full strength bonus. Rip and tear time.
2. Now, if you have armed and natural attacks, you can make your regular attack sequence with your weapon, then all natural attacks for the limbs not holding a weapon as secondary. This can become quite weird as unarmed attacks can be made with any part of the body, but I suggest to, for simplicity's sake, count one limb as "occupied" and make 3 claw attacks and a bite after the unarmed attack sequence. These count as secondary attacks, so they are at -2 (because of multiattack) and with half the strength bonus to damage.
For mechanical and balance reasons, I think you are fully within your rights to treat the unarmed strike as a single light weapon and tell your player that he can also add 3 claw attacks as secondary. It is a reasonable interpretation of the rules that should work for both of you.
Source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Natural-Attacks
Problems I see:
1.) You already get Light Armor Proficiency from being a Summoner so he doesn't need to take that feat.
2.) Based on a FAQ from way before, there was a discussion about whether or not you can TWF with an unarmed strike. Based on what I read, it seems an unarmed strike requires two hands, but you can TWF with it to drop it to a 1h requirement.
A hand represents a unit of action economy usually. A natural attack not attached to your base limbs is like an extra attack as I understand it. Something like a dagger boot basically takes up action economy from one hand.
So you should get your bite and unarmed strike at full BAB. OR you should get your bite, unarmed strike, and claw with TWF penalties on the unarmed strike and claw.
3.) IMPORTANT: He has the calculations for his evolutions wrong. The evolutions for the base form DO NOT take up evolution points. At lv5 he gets 8 evolution points.
Limbs (arms): Free
Limbs (legs): Free
Claws (arms): Free
Bite: 1
Flight, Magical: 4
Flight Speed +20: 1
Skilled (Fly): 1
Total: 7
Remaining: 2/9 (+1 from Extra Evolution feat)
Also, and now I'm getting really confused...
He wants to drop the additional point of fly and bite evolution for extra limbs.
He now has four arms.
Technically, does four arms with four claws give him four claw attacks? Can he then make four unarmed monk attacks instead with four said arms?
Damn this combo is CONFUSING.
Claws only affect one set of limbs. If he wants more claw attacks then he needs to take another claw evolution.
If he wants to hit with 4 unarmed strikes then he needs take HUGE penalties or take the Multiweapon Fighting feat and the reduced penalties.
@ Parizzio: ok, there are, as best I can tell, 2 options.
1. Natural attacks only: all primary at full BAB, secondary (if any) at BAB -5 or -2 with multiattack. Simple. In this case, since claws and bite are all primary, everything is at full BAB, full strength bonus. Rip and tear time.
2. Now, if you have armed and natural attacks, you can make your regular attack sequence with your weapon, then all natural attacks for the limbs not holding a weapon as secondary. This can become quite weird as unarmed attacks can be made with any part of the body, but I suggest to, for simplicity's sake, count one limb as "occupied" and make 3 claw attacks and a bite after the unarmed attack sequence. These count as secondary attacks, so they are at -2 (because of multiattack) and with half the strength bonus to damage.
For mechanical and balance reasons, I think you are fully within your rights to treat the unarmed strike as a single light weapon and tell your player that he can also add 3 claw attacks as secondary. It is a reasonable interpretation of the rules that should work for both of you.
Source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Natural-Attacks
Based on a FAQ I read in response to a topic about Unarmed Strikes and TWF, an Unarmed Strike requires two arms of action economy unless you choose to fight with TWF penalties for two attacks.
So he could fight with two arms as an Unarmed Strike, then the two extra arms as claws and the bite. Or he could fight with 4 unarmed strikes and Two/Multi-Weapon Fighting penalites (-6 primary, -10 off hand). Etc.
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The best strategy for him to use is this:
One unarmed strike with 2 arms.
Two claws with 2 arms.
One bite.
OR
Four claw attacks with 4 arms.
One bite.
With one of those two the rules are much, much, much clearer. If he wants to use multiple unarmed strikes then he needs to get into TWF and that gets confusing. Just remember that an Unarmed Strike requires two hands of action economy unless you choose to TWF.
Edit:
Actually, based on some sources an Unarmed Strike doesn't require hands as action economy... sorry if I spread misinformation but I'm really not sure what sources to trust.
Note that he doesn't get multi-attack for free until he is Summoner lev 9. So while a lev 7 multiclass character that does meet the requirement for multi-attack could select it as a feat, it is not granted for free as soon as you meet the requirements.
So yeah, the monk levels do not add much to his offense; he is better just making his natural attacks. And then wonder if being 2 levels behind in evolutions was worth it for Stunning fist and toughness, boost to saves and AC.
Just wanted to point out the feats that i listed:
"Armor Prof (light)
Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk Weapon Proficiency
Simple Weapon Prof
Stunning Fist
Toughness (via MotSM)"
Are all feats he didnt take. He got 'em all through class abilities. I just wanted to list them to round everything out.
Its best to seperate things into manageable parts. First if he does an unarmed strike he will get 1 attack at +10 or flurry for +8 +8 +3. However if he flurries he cannot do natural attacks.
Anyhow as far as the natural attacks go he can have a ton of arms but it won't allow more unarmed strikes or add any new natural attacks.
Synthesist are complicated and its often best to keep things simple.