Table limits and pregens at high-level modules

[Tony Mills 954]

Please point me in the right direction if this has already been addressed.

I am part of a high-level PFS group who are now playing modules beyond 12th level. We've already played Academy of Secrets.

We were supposed to play Tomb of the Iron Medusa today but one of our players canceled at the last minute, leaving us with 3 players and a GM.

If this were a regular PFS scenario of 1-11, we could use a pregen as an NPC and keep it as a legal table. However, there appear to be no such allowances for high-level modules. Is this something that could be addressed in future editions of the Pathfinder Society Guide to Organized Play? If there is already a solution for us, can someone direct me to the source?

[LazarX]

There are no legal pre-gens for beyond 7th level.

You'll just have to reschedule or find a fourth.

[ahayford]

This seems like a deficiency that could be fixed going forward yes? Is there any campaign reason we couldnt have a set of high level pregens?

[LazarX]

ahayford wrote:

This seems like a deficiency that could be fixed going forward yes? Is there any campaign reason we couldnt have a set of high level pregens?

Probably because high level scenarios are seen as sufficiently deadly that pre-gens should not be used on them, as many such scenarios need more flexibility in preparation than a pre-gen can have.

[teribithia9]

I'd like to put forward my vote for allowing the level 12 iconics in higher level scenarios for this very reason--we have a group that's 3 players and a GM...and have been waiting almost two years now for our fourth player to get a character to 12. It's a drag, since I'm a module subscriber and those high level mods are piling up. We could play them....if pregens were allowed.

[CRobledo]

Part of high-level play for PFS is that it is a reward for sticking out with a character until they become a Seeker. I believe it is the intention of the campaign to restrict higher-level play to player characters and leave pregens for other tables.

There are even sub-level 12 modules where pregens are not available for (any module level 9+, because their range would be 8-10 or higher).

MINISCULE not even a spoiler for EOTT part 1, page 1, sidebar 1:

The opening sidebar states: no pregenerated characters are allowed to make a legal table for Tier 12 scenarios. The Tier 12 arcs are a reward for players who have enjoyed the campaign for the past few years and have achieved the highest level possible—we don’t want to cheapen that experience by allowing anyone to play at this level.

That quote explains it very well. There are even other factors involved. Play at 12+ can be VERY VERY time-consuming and very subject to analysis-paralysis. Giving a pregen to someone who has never played that class before, or even any class that high a level is asking for the game to slow down to a crawl.

You say that you are a modules subscriber... well, then play them! Just not for PFS credit. I have played Academy of Secrets myself, and it is quite a treat. We are scheduled to play Tomb of the Iron Medusa next month, and we are all stoked about it.

[Tony Mills 954]

I definitely see the point of wanting high-level play as a reward for PCs who have played a character through to retirement. However, it would be quite easy to have high-level pregens that can only be used to make a legal table. Paizo would simply mention in the Guide to OP that high-level pregens cannot be used as a regular PC the way that other pregens are. They would allow them only for the creation of a legal table where there are three players and a GM.

[Cold Napalm]

It's because 12+ play is a miniscule amount of PFS play. Your asking them to spend resources to support play that VERY few in PFS participate in...vs say write more scenarios or fix known issues with the rules. Remember that the pre-gen we have NOW have errors that they don't have time to fix...and you want them to add MORE before this happens?

[teribithia9]

There are already 12th level versions of the iconics in the NPC codex--I don't see how that requires an expenditure of extra resources.

And I wasn't, by any means, advocating playing Eyes of the Ten, for example, with a pre-gen instead of an actual character. I was just putting my vote in for the use of pre-gens to be allowed to make a table when you have three players and a GM like other scenarios/modules for the ones over level 9. It would certainly make my game life easier.

[ElyasRavenwood]

Why not use the 12 level Iconics in the NPC Codex to fill in a table?

I know it isn't a great solution, but it might help a little bit.

[NOG the Demoralizer]

The more recent sanctioned modules all allow you to play them in campaign mode, and then assign the chronicle sheets to characters the players have that can legally use them. I know Iron Medusa is an older module, but why would the rule for that be any different? EOTT is a PFS specific retirement arc, one would have to look at the wording for the other sanctioned modules to see if they say the same thing.

My understanding based on the more recent modules (WBG2, Dragons Demand, etc.) is that your last player should be able to soft level their character to the appropriate level (or play a totally different character), and then assign the chronicle sheet to their actual character once it achieves the appropriate level.

[ElyasRavenwood]

When Modules were first sanctioned, you could simply create a character to run through a module and then apply the earned chronicle sheet to another one of your characters.
no conditions not even death carried over. This presumably led to some abuse, and the rules were changed so you couldn't do that any more.

I think the "campaign mode" specifically applies to the adventure paths. I think it applies to the Dragon's Demand, because it is kind of like a mini campaign itself, but I don't think the modules have a "campaign mode" because they are too short and you can play them from cover to cover, whereas you can't play the adventure paths from cover to cover for PFS, just the chosen parts.

I hope this helps

[NOG the Demoralizer]

That would make sense, I was also rationalizing it based on WBG2 but obviously there would be no other way to play it for PFS outside that elusive boon.

[teribithia9]

Myles Crocker wrote:

Why not use the 12 level Iconics in the NPC Codex to fill in a table?

I know it isn't a great solution, but it might help a little bit.

Because it's not allowed. The OP was, I believe, saying it should be for tables of three players and a GM. I'm agreeing.

[Tony Mills 954]

teribithia9 wrote:

Myles Crocker wrote:

Why not use the 12 level Iconics in the NPC Codex to fill in a table?

I know it isn't a great solution, but it might help a little bit.

Because it's not allowed. The OP was, I believe, saying it should be for tables of three players and a GM. I'm agreeing.

Yes, this is what I was saying. These characters from the Codex are not allowed for PFS play in modules. It would be nice if they were, or other characters from the Codex which are of the same level as the module in question. Again, only to make a legal table, not to be used by a player as their character.