Another Eidolon question here. Eidolons gain HD as the Summoner advances in level, and those HD are d10s. My question is: do you roll those d10s to determine Hit Points, or is there some sort of other way to determine HP (max, average, etc.)? If you roll them, do you roll its Hit Die at first level, or does it receive max? (I would certainly hate to be the guy whose Eidolon had 1 HP max...)
Same as for animal companions.
Usually take the average on all rolls including the first.
The rules are mostly silent on this. The Bestiary states that creatures take the average (except for the first level of a PC class level). However, that may or may not apply to AC's and Eidolons.
If this is not PFS I suggest you ask your GM. If this is PFS the answer is statistical average.
This works out to 4, 5, 4, 5 for a D8 (4.5 each level) and 5, 6, 5, 6 for a D10 (5.5 for each level).
The only thing that gets maximum hp is a PC class at first level. Eidolons and Animal Companions do not have a PC class so they do not get maximum.
- Gauss
Will do. Thanks, guys!
The rules are mostly silent on this. The Bestiary states that creatures take the average (except for the first level of a PC class level).
Could you tell me the page for that? I thought NPCs with PC class levels also take average on the first die.
Well from the PF Reference Document under Hit Points in "Getting Started":
A creature gains maximum hit points if its first Hit Die roll is for a character class level. Creatures whose first Hit Die comes from an NPC class or from his race roll their first Hit Die normally.
hp: The creature’s hit points, followed by its Hit Dice (including modifiers from Constitution, favored class levels, creature type modifiers, and the Toughness feat). Creatures with PC class levels receive maximum hit points for their first HD, but all other HD rolls are assumed to be average. Fast healing and regeneration values, if any, follow the creature’s HD.
and
Hit Points (hp): Hit points are an abstraction signifying
how robust and healthy a creature is at the current moment. To determine a creature’s hit points, roll the dice indicated by its Hit Dice. A creature gains maximum hit points if its first Hit Die roll is for a character class level. Creatures whose first Hit Die comes from an NPC class or from his race roll their first Hit Die normally. Wounds subtract hit points, while healing (both natural and magical) restores hit points. Some abilities and spells grant temporary hit points that disappear after a specific duration. When a creature’s hit points drop below 0, it becomes unconscious. When a creature’s hit points reach a negative total equal to its Constitution score, it dies.
If it is any consolation, even Paizo APs get this one wrong. They consistently fail to give maximum HPs for the first PC level to NPCs.
I always fix this when I run an AP.
- Gauss
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I never just take the average, even for monsters. It's silly that every hippo you run across has the same hit points.
I never just take the average, even for monsters. It's silly that every hippo you run across has the same hit points.
Yes, but do you honestly want to roll the hitdice for 20 hippos? Ones that the party might avoid entirely with a successful stealth check? The average rules is just a bit of shorthand for GMs mostly, allowing them to more easily work with the enemies.
Adding and subtracting from the average is of course the GM's right, and an advised way of increasing difficulty without needing more powerful stats, attacks, or abilities.
It's silly that every hippo you run across has the same hit points.
I have to ask, though- are the players even going to notice? Maybe your players pay more attention than mine, but is one of them sitting here with a calculator saying, "Wait a minute- that goblin took 24 damage, and it's still standing, but that one we fought yesterday went down after 21. Interesting." Conversely, did you ever have players say, "Don't worry, these orcs have exactly 16 hit points each, so no need to waste something that does more damage than that."
I mean, I just don't see the need. At the end of the day, what difference is it going to make?
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*** Conversely, did you ever have players say, "Don't worry, these orcs have exactly 16 hit points each, so no need to waste something that does more damage than that."
***
ALL THE FLIPPIN' TIME.
It's actually one of the primary reasons I do sneaky things like roll hp and quietly add an Advanced template here or there.
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The rules are mostly silent on this. The Bestiary states that creatures take the average (except for the first level of a PC class level). However, that may or may not apply to AC's and Eidolons.
If this is not PFS I suggest you ask your GM. If this is PFS the answer is statistical average.
This works out to 4, 5, 4, 5 for a D8 (4.5 each level) and 5, 6, 5, 6 for a D10 (5.5 for each level).The only thing that gets maximum hp is a PC class at first level. Eidolons and Animal Companions do not have a PC class so they do not get maximum.
- Gauss
FWIW, PFS is actually "average rounded up", so a d8 is 5 hp for each level and a d10 is 6 hp for each level.
HangarFlying, the PFS HP average is rounded up for players but to my knowledge that does not apply to critters. Pathfinder Society Organized Play Table 2-2 has no category for Animal Companions and Eidolons.
Then again, I am not always aware of every PFS rule so perhaps somewhere there is a statement they get the PFS rounded up average.
Edit: I found the FAQ covering this. Determining hit points for Animal Companions (I assume it applies to Eidolons as well)
- Gauss
If my players encounter just one creature then I usually just use the average hit points, but I roll for hit points when they encounter a group of the same type of creature. I also give each creature a one or two word description, so instead of fighting hippopotamus #6 they encounter one with a broken tusk, or one with scar, or one with pink spots.
It really doesn't take that much more time in preparation.
It's silly that every hippo you run across has the same hit points.I have to ask, though- are the players even going to notice? Maybe your players pay more attention than mine, but is one of them sitting here with a calculator saying, "Wait a minute- that goblin took 24 damage, and it's still standing, but that one we fought yesterday went down after 21. Interesting." Conversely, did you ever have players say, "Don't worry, these orcs have exactly 16 hit points each, so no need to waste something that does more damage than that."
I mean, I just don't see the need. At the end of the day, what difference is it going to make?
Yes, yes, and yes. (The first two more than the third.) Pretty much every game I've played that didn't involve an entire party of first-time d20 players. It's even worse with 3.5 or earlier veterans playing Pathfinder for the first time. They tend to remember the lower HP values from those systems.
I certainly pay attention if one of the gnolls takes more damage than it took to take down his pal. If I'm GM-ing, I make sure to describe the different builds of the enemies if there's an appropriate moment.
If my players encounter just one creature then I usually just use the average hit points, but I roll for hit points when they encounter a group of the same type of creature. I also give each creature a one or two word description, so instead of fighting hippopotamus #6 they encounter one with a broken tusk, or one with scar, or one with pink spots.
It really doesn't take that much more time in preparation.
Exactly; this is good stuff and can make an encounter more memorable than "Ho hum, a pack of identical dire wolves. Which one did you already hit again?"
