Dragon Style and Brass Knuckles

[Errant Inlad]

How does Dragon Style interact with Brass Knuckles?
Brass Knuckles modify ones unarmed strike to deal Lethal Damage, implying that the damage modifiers of Dragon Style may apply. However, Brass Knuckles are also classified as their own weapon, separate from Unarmed Strikes. What wins out?

[awp832]

I don't understand, your unarmed strikes can already do lethal damage thanks to the Improved Unarmed Strike feat you have, a necessary prereq for dragon style. Can you maybe rephrase what you are asking?

[ShadowcatX]

I believe that brass knuckles will allow unarmed strikes to do lethal damage, but only at the brass knuckles damage. (Ie. You can't use monk's improved damage.) I'm not 100% sure that's the case, I think there was an FAQ / errata / something that made them all but worthless despite the RAW, but I don't remember what it was or what it said.

[Errant Inlad]

awp832 wrote:

I don't understand, your unarmed strikes can already do lethal damage thanks to the Improved Unarmed Strike feat you have, a necessary prereq for dragon style. Can you maybe rephrase what you are asking?

Lemme throw in some context for ya. I've got a Brawler Fighter/ Master of Many Styles, who uses Dragon Style to maintain his damage. I plan on using Brass Knuckles, even with their reduced base damage, in place of my unarmed strike. Brass knuckles are enchantable, and may be made from special materials/coated with weapon blanch to overcome DR.

Now the question is, will the benefits of Dragon Style apply to brass knuckles? I'd assumed yes, reasoning that Brass Knuckles allow your unarmed strikes to deal Lethal damage, so wielding them is an Unarmed Strike attack and Dragon Style applies.

The counter argument bein that Brass Knuckles are weapons, wielding them is a Brass Knuckles attack and NOT an unarmed strike, and dragon style does not apply.

Brass Knuckles, Ultimate Equipment:

These weapons fit snugly around the knuckles and allow you to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike. You may hold, but not wield, a weapon or other object in a hand wearing brass knuckles. You may cast a spell with a somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make a successful concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you're casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles. Brass knuckles can't be disarmed.

Dragon Style, Ultimate Combat:

While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.

[Some Random Dood]

I would say no, because as you already mentioned, brass knuckles are a weapon, not an unarmed strike.

[Claxon]

Whats really annoying is the Ultimate Equipment entry of Brass knuckles shows that monks don't get unarmed strike damage, while the Advanced Player's Guide version shows they do. Ultiamte Equipment is more up to date, being the more recent book. But these entries are both on the PRD under their respective entries.

I had initially posted about monks not getting their unarmed damage with them, but when I doubled checked myself I saw the APG entry and deleted it. Then, I came back to see I wasn't crazy.

As a final statement, with regard to the OP's question. No, it seems that an attack with Brass Knuckles counts as a weapon attack, and not an unarmed strike.

[awp832]

I'd have to say that by the same logic that Monks do not get their Monk Unarmed Damage when using Brass Knuckles or Cestus, that Dragon Style would not be able to provide bonus damage when making an attack with Brass Knuckles. They are weapons.

You'd still be able to use dragon style, as far as I can tell, and you would get the bonus agianst paralysis/sleep/stun, ignore terrain on the charge, and charge through allies. Not a bad bonus even without the extra damage.

[blahpers]

Since UE says no, I'll go with no. This makes sense, as unarmed strike, especially for monks, is not limited to the hands.