One of the things I've noticed is that players are too often shy or simply lack motivation to truly engage in any real role playing. Sure they may be great players and be ass kickers at PFS games, but when it comes to connecting with PCs, NPCs or even themselves, they tend to withdraw. I've had this happen several times recently while running RotRL. So I've been thinking about how to help players 'break the ice' and get them to step out of their comfort zones. I know that PFS games have a list of objectives and I've even seen xp bonuses for RPing in modules, but I wanted to take it a step further and give the players something more tangible that will help expand their comfort zone. The idea is to give the players a short list (either individually or as a group) of role playing 'objectives'. Meeting these objectives will earn them extra xp. For example: earn 100xp for engaging in a religious debate with a member of the clergy-the debate must last at least 5 minutes to count; or negotiate the price (buy or sell) or something worth at least 100 gp, do not take 'no' for an answer. So I'm asking for opinions on what kinds of encounters (that the players initiate themselves) that could help players engage the world.
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I think the best way to get people out of their RP shell is to bring it as a GM. Did they give you background sheets? Tailor some encounters for each PC. Have random NPCs just interact with the group. Have monsters and other un-friendlies banter a bit before battle. I bring it to my players and they love me for it.
The XP idea is ok it works out well enough in PFS. I ditched XP a long time ago so any idea to encourage certain behaviors using XP is not something I am going to go for. That said I have done some PFS and recommend maybe yoinking some of the faction mission stuff and slapping it on your players.
There are a few ways you could go about promoting this type of behavior.
Two immediately come to mind:
However, the first thing to remember is that as the GM, if you want the players to experience an aspect of the RPG, you first need to introduce it yourself and present it as a good thing. Hopefully then, the players will recognize and learn that if they do X, they will get Y reward. You want them to connect with the NPCs? Make the NPCs connect with them first! Afterwards, reward them on their performance. If they get rewarded, they will look at NPCs as opportunities to interact and gain rewards; similar to how a group of enemies offer opportunities to interact (usually fight) and gain rewards (usually GP & XP.) Also, don't limit NPC interaction rewards to just XP. Just like real life, it is possible that a PC can earn some favors from NPCs by playing their cards right. Remind them: it's not what you know, it's who you know.
Alright; two things off the top of my head that can help with building PC world interaction:
1) Ultimate Campaign has these great new things called Story Feats. Did your players provide a backstory for their characters? If not, that's okay; Ultimate Campaign also provides a half-decent backstory generation system. You could give each player a free Story Feat at level 1 relevant to their backstory. They are neat in that they give you a small up-front bonus, a goal to work towards, and then a big bonus upon completing the requirements. Such examples include designing and constructing a building, finding your missing loved one, or converting a number of creatures to your religion.
2) Borrow an idea from a different game: another game I know of does not have an alignment system as we know it, such as Pathfinder's Law-Chaos/Good-Evil system. Instead, each player is supposed to pick a maxim that describes their character's behavior, and if they accurately represent that during play sessions, they get XP rewards. For example, during character creation, a player would make a statement like, "My character is an optimist; he always makes the best of a bad situation and has something nice to say," or, "My character is a misogynist; he insults every woman he meets." At the end of the day, if that PC lived up to their maxim, give them an XP bonus reward.
I think the best way to get people out of their RP shell is to bring it as a GM. Did they give you background sheets? Tailor some encounters for each PC. Have random NPCs just interact with the group. Have monsters and other un-friendlies banter a bit before battle. I bring it to my players and they love me for it.
The XP idea is ok it works out well enough in PFS. I ditched XP a long time ago so any idea to encourage certain behaviors using XP is not something I am going to go for. That said I have done some PFS and recommend maybe yoinking some of the faction mission stuff and slapping it on your players.
I was tempted to just tell them my concerns but I think it would go over as being too critical. They are great people and great players but they have marginalized what could have been great RP moments. For example, one of the players found out that the bad guy they were up against was his very own nephew. And he did nothing with it. He even just stood there and allowed him to be executed without saying a word. And this was supposed to fit his back story concerning his long lost brother. As for the list, my plan is to treat it as role playing "exorcises" that they can take or leave. No one has to do anything, but if they want the extra xp then here's what they have to do. If they have something more tangible and a specific RP goal then maybe they are more likely to become engaged on their own. In time I won't even need to bribe them because they will become so comfortable that it will simply be second nature. That's the plan anyway.
There are a few ways you could go about promoting this type of behavior.
Two immediately come to mind:
However, the first thing to remember is that as the GM, if you want the players to experience an aspect of the RPG, you first need to introduce it yourself and present it as a good thing. Hopefully then, the players will recognize and learn that if they do X, they will get Y reward. You want them to connect with the NPCs? Make the NPCs connect with them first! Afterwards, reward them on their performance. If they get rewarded, they will look at NPCs as opportunities to interact and gain rewards; similar to how a group of enemies offer opportunities to interact (usually fight) and gain rewards (usually GP & XP.) Also, don't limit NPC interaction rewards to just XP. Just like real life, it is possible that a PC can earn some favors from NPCs by playing their cards right. Remind them: it's not what you know, it's who you know.
Alright; two things off the top of my head that can help with building PC world interaction:
1) Ultimate Campaign has these great new things called Story Feats. Did your players provide a backstory for their characters? If not, that's okay; Ultimate Campaign also provides a half-decent backstory generation system. You could give each player a free Story Feat at level 1 relevant to their backstory. They are neat in that they give you a small up-front bonus, a goal to work towards, and then a big bonus upon completing the requirements. Such examples include designing and constructing a building, finding your missing loved one, or converting a number of creatures to your religion.
2) Borrow an idea from a different game: another game I know of does not have an alignment system as we know it, such as Pathfinder's Law-Chaos/Good-Evil system. Instead, each player is supposed to pick a maxim that describes their character's behavior, and if they accurately represent that during play sessions, they get XP rewards. For example, during character creation, a player would make a...
Yep, all great ideas. And it's stuff that I already do. I have them create a bullet point list of everything about their characters that makes them stand out, including basic philosophy. I'll have NPCs try to engage them in conversation, be critical of their actions to try and get a response out of them, ask them for stories about their pasts, and the best I can get out of them is a few sentences. Like I said they play well, but I have only witnesses one true moment where I became excited just from the RPing. Anyway, I'm just going to try the objectives approach as an experiment and see if I notice an increase in intensity. I want to see the PCs confronting NPCs and each other and not simply wait for me to present an opportunity and then only to drop the ball. I say put the ball firmly in their court and see how far they run with it. The objectives will simply give them a clear target to go for.
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Ok going off what we have so far deadguy I say go for it. However, if the players seem to be purely going through the motions to get that XP nugget you might have to prepare for the possibility these guys are in the "just want to kill things and take their stuff" camp. Nothing wrong with that but if its what they want give them what they want.
Ok going off what we have so far deadguy I say go for it. However, if the players seem to be purely going through the motions to get that XP nugget you might have to prepare for the possibility these guys are in the "just want to kill things and take their stuff" camp. Nothing wrong with that but if its what they want give them what they want.
You're right. I think one of the problems is that at least 2 of them are PFS players (which is fine, I've played a few times myself). They have the rules down, but unfortunately, players usually don't get the chance to stretch their RP muscles in those types of games. It's all about efficiency and obtaining the next objective. Lots of fun but narrow in focus.
You hit the other point I was going to make. It is possible that the level of RP they wish to partake in is absolutely 100% where they like it. And there's nothing wrong with that. The game is designed such that it has the ability to be a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
Your best option is to display everything you are comfortable running in the game, and your players will see this gaming buffet you have laid out for them, take what they like, and leave the rest. That gives you a good idea of what to provide more of. Just remember that a) don't present something on the buffet if you don't want them to take it; and b) they can't pick something off the buffet if you don't put it out there first.
@ Eddie the Sea Hag (the OP): I hear you brother. I have 2 gaming groups; one who would love nothing more than to make my PF game into nothing more than one of their board games, and the other that spend hours chatting with random NPCs in the bar about food spices rather than going after ACTUAL plot hooks.
I'm STILL trying to find a happy medium that fits my own personal style. Until then, I'll keep tailoring my games to my players.
I'd say give them something even MORE useful than xp, but perhaps less than story feats. What about extra traits?
I have one guy who doesn't like RP at all; he's transitioned from the non-RP game to the mega-RP game I'm running and god love him he's trying to be a good sport about it. One of the things he's done is started joking that his dwarf, during downtime is either doing something for the group w/his skills or doing "dwarven yoga" - pebble pose, rock balancing, beard twists.
I was thinking of giving him a trait about it, giving him a +1 Acrobatics when balancing. I know it's not much, but it's a specific, measured response to EXACTLY what he's been doing. Do you think something like that would work?
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If you want to encourage a certain kind of behaviour then you need to give the PLAYER immediate and tangible rewards for performing that behaviour.
So if you give them "Bonus Goals" like, "get some more information from the Watchman" or "enter a drinking contest with a dwarf", as soon as the PC does the thing you like (Roleplaying) give them candy or chocolate.
Training players is not much different from training anyone else, and most people associate immediate tangible rewards more than abstract ones. XP are just numbers on a page. Candy is dandy.
Liquor is quicker.
If you want to encourage a certain kind of behaviour then you need to give the PLAYER immediate and tangible rewards for performing that behaviour.
So if you give them "Bonus Goals" like, "get some more information from the Watchman" or "enter a drinking contest with a dwarf", as soon as the PC does the thing you like (Roleplaying) give them candy or chocolate.
Training players is not much different from training anyone else, and most people associate immediate tangible rewards more than abstract ones. XP are just numbers on a page. Candy is dandy.
Liquor is quicker.
Throwing chocolate at people sounds fun but unfortunately its a roll20 group;).
But anyway the point of the exorcise isn't to cater to comfort zones but to encourage them to step out. Besides the concept is in an experimental stage so it could work or not. The main point of the thread was simply to ask what kinds of encounters and parameters could be the most helpful to promote a player to, on his own accord, seek out these opportunities. In other words make the players pro-active instead of reactive. And one more point about the list, is that many people find it easier to accomplish things if they are plainly laid out, a specific direction to go. After a bit they won't need any list or direction pointing because it will become almost second nature.
Ok, well, let's say you're going ahead w/this plan then. You're asking for encounters/scenarios. Try these on for size:
1. Gather Info at the bar without rolling diplomacy; + xp
2. (if using downtime from Ultimate Campaign) provide detailed description of what your character did to generate capital; + 1 Capital of the same kind
3. gather worshippers for your god; + religion trait
4. befriend a youth in a settlement; + social trait
5. consistently (10 times or more) use a battlecry; +1 to next to hit and damage
6. get a boyfriend/girlfriend in character; + xp
7. sing a song; + xp
8. consistently (10 times or more) act out spellcasting; +1 magic trait
9. explain complicated mathematics to the less fortunate; + xp
10. seek out and convince a mentor to train you w/out using Diplomacy; + xp
Those are just some off the top of my head. DaDm is right though; you're training the person, not the character. Still, in place of sugar or intoxicants, giving rewards that provide real, tangible bonuses they can use might be another "treasure" to motivate these side quests. Also look at NPC Boons; small favors, skill bonuses or minor treasures that NPCs can offer after significant interaction.
What kind of character is the person running that needs the nudge?
Ok, well, let's say you're going ahead w/this plan then. You're asking for encounters/scenarios. Try these on for size:
1. Gather Info at the bar without rolling diplomacy; + xp
2. (if using downtime from Ultimate Campaign) provide detailed description of what your character did to generate capital; + 1 Capital of the same kind
3. gather worshippers for your god; + religion trait
4. befriend a youth in a settlement; + social trait
5. consistently (10 times or more) use a battlecry; +1 to next to hit and damage
6. get a boyfriend/girlfriend in character; + xp
7. sing a song; + xp
8. consistently (10 times or more) act out spellcasting; +1 magic trait
9. explain complicated mathematics to the less fortunate; + xp
10. seek out and convince a mentor to train you w/out using Diplomacy; + xpThose are just some off the top of my head. DaDm is right though; you're training the person, not the character. Still, in place of sugar or intoxicants, giving rewards that provide real, tangible bonuses they can use might be another "treasure" to motivate these side quests. Also look at NPC Boons; small favors, skill bonuses or minor treasures that NPCs can offer after significant interaction.
What kind of character is the person running that needs the nudge?
This was the kind of thing I was looking for. There's some good stuff here.
I'm not sure what you mean by "training the person not the character", they're one and the same after all.I think you're a little hung up on the "xp reward" aspect. I never indicated that that would be the only thing, but being that it's Pathfinder it's the most obvious. And motivating people to "action" is not really the issue, the issue is getting players to add that extra layer of role playing that has nothing to do with "completing a mission", it's about getting them to connect in ways that transcends rules. The objective list just helps ease the transition because it's packaged as a "mission statement".
On a personal note I'm actually pulling from my own real life experiences. When I was a kid I lived in a children's home that used a point card system as a disciplinary/training method. I was awarded points for all the positive things I did throughout the day and negative points if I stepped out of line. At the end of the day I had to add it all up and if I didn't have 10,000 positives I would lose my privileges the next day (in other word do all the work and have zero fun). Once I earned so many positives total (I think it was like 500,000 or something) I went up to the next level (from a daily system to a weekly system) and earned more trust and freedom. So in a sense I'm probably one of the few (maybe only) person on these boards that actually lived by a character sheet and had to earn actual experience points (and go up in level). So I've seen this method of training work in real life. Now whether it translates into this scenario is still open to question, but I definitely wouldn't dismiss it until thoroughly tested.
Btw there's no specific player (they all did it a few times). But last nights game they opened up a bit more, so that's good.
Anyway, thanks for the input.