PRD?


Product Discussion


I'm not positive which forum is the best to post this, but I think this may be the one.

If I understand correctly, you can have a product which is PRD compatible for free...but to have it Pathfinder compatible you have to license it from Paizo?

So does that mean you could put on a product PRD compatible?

I'm not certain I understand completely...which is why I'm asking.

For example, if I designed an adventure or module for sale on RPGnow, and I made it PRD compatible (instead of the OGL from the 3e days) could I put on the cover PRD compatible? Do I put the license at the back and I'm good, or is there more to it?

On the otherhand, if I wanted to put Pathfinder compatible on the cover, I'd contact Paizo for the licensing of the brand name, and after paying fees, signing agreements or otherwise, then I could put it Pathfinder compatible?

Beyond the world of Golarian, and miscellaneous side rules not found in the PRD, is there a big difference between PRD compatible and Pathfinder compatible?

Or am I confusing the issue and they are the same license?

Thanks for any replies.

Grand Lodge

PFRPG Game Compatibility License FAQ.

To my knowledge, there is no 'PRD compatible' category. The PRD is a reference document for anyone to access the mechanical rules of the game without having to purchase them. What you wish to do requires following the Pathfinder RPG Game Compatibility License, which is the legal requirement Paizo has set for anyone wishing to claim compatibility with the PFRPG. You can still publish without submitting for the license, but you cannot advertise as being a PF-compatible publisher.

Also, to my knowledge you cannot use Golarion or other Product Identity content at all without a completely separate license to publish material set in the Golarion world.


Quote:


Anything we've declared as Open Game Content in our products, though, is available under the OGL... but note that the OGL specifically restricts you from using "any ... trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity", or from "indicat[ing] compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark."

Which means you can't use trademarks like Pathfinder or Paizo in connection with your app (except for citing your sources of Open Game Content in your OGL Section 15 Copyright Notice). (Using the non-trademarked term "PFRPG" is legal.)

So this is where I get the questioning about it, I suppose this is more succinct.

If I understand the faq correctly, wouldn't that mean I could use the PRD on it, or would it be PFRPG that I'd have to use as a term...such as...

if it were on a module...utilize the PFRPG (or PRD if that is allowed) with this adventure! and such.

Or with a game system under the OGL rules using the Open Game items from the PRD...acknowledging the usage by stating...based upon the PRD, or PFRPG...as the moniker.

OF course all items also would require the OGL along with the Paizo license additions in the back of the modules or game system.


If you don't want to use the Pathfinder Compatibility License (but quite frankly why wouldn't you? Paizo don't charge for it, and the only real restriction is no content that would be inappropriate for minors) then you're pretty much free to put anything you like on there as long as it's not a trademark or something that's identified as Product Identity in the OGL.

Personally, I'd use the license Paizo have been good enough to give us, it comes with a nice logo you can stick on the cover too ;)

If you really set against it, then you're basically unable to use the word "Pathfinder" anywhere near your product. You could use "Compatible with PFRPG", or a giant "PFRPG" logo of your own making. I think "PRD" is okay too (I'm not aware of it being trademarked), or "PF Roleplaying Game", or pretty much anything of your own invention that can get people to realize what rules it's used for.

So I think you're really looking to use the Pathfinder Compatibility License. You seem to have gotten the impression you'd have to pay Paizo to use that, and that's just not true. It's free :)

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/compatibility

Other than the restriction mentioned above, the only other thing you really have to do is make sure you submit your application and register with Paizo that you're using the license.

"That makes no sense!" I hear you cry. "Why would they give it away for free?". The answer is that it means more Pathfinder support out there, and thus more people playing and more people buying the core rulebook (and supplements) from Paizo in order that they can use your pathfinder-compatible product.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dash Jones wrote:
Quote:


Anything we've declared as Open Game Content in our products, though, is available under the OGL... but note that the OGL specifically restricts you from using "any ... trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity", or from "indicat[ing] compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark."

Which means you can't use trademarks like Pathfinder or Paizo in connection with your app (except for citing your sources of Open Game Content in your OGL Section 15 Copyright Notice). (Using the non-trademarked term "PFRPG" is legal.)

So this is where I get the questioning about it, I suppose this is more succinct.

If I understand the faq correctly, wouldn't that mean I could use the PRD on it, or would it be PFRPG that I'd have to use as a term...such as...

if it were on a module...utilize the PFRPG (or PRD if that is allowed) with this adventure! and such.

Or with a game system under the OGL rules using the Open Game items from the PRD...acknowledging the usage by stating...based upon the PRD, or PFRPG...as the moniker.

OF course all items also would require the OGL along with the Paizo license additions in the back of the modules or game system.

As others have said, there is no such thing as 'PRD compatible'. I think maybe you are getting your terms wrong? The PRD is Paizo's free online reference for the main Pathfinder RPG rules. If you want to publish something that uses, and is compatible with the Pathfinder RPG, you need to use the Pathfinder Compatibility License, which has been linked to above. It does not cost anything and is not overly restrictive.

Does that help?


Marc Radle wrote:
Dash Jones wrote:
Quote:


Anything we've declared as Open Game Content in our products, though, is available under the OGL... but note that the OGL specifically restricts you from using "any ... trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity", or from "indicat[ing] compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark."

Which means you can't use trademarks like Pathfinder or Paizo in connection with your app (except for citing your sources of Open Game Content in your OGL Section 15 Copyright Notice). (Using the non-trademarked term "PFRPG" is legal.)

So this is where I get the questioning about it, I suppose this is more succinct.

If I understand the faq correctly, wouldn't that mean I could use the PRD on it, or would it be PFRPG that I'd have to use as a term...such as...

if it were on a module...utilize the PFRPG (or PRD if that is allowed) with this adventure! and such.

Or with a game system under the OGL rules using the Open Game items from the PRD...acknowledging the usage by stating...based upon the PRD, or PFRPG...as the moniker.

OF course all items also would require the OGL along with the Paizo license additions in the back of the modules or game system.

As others have said, there is no such thing as 'PRD compatible'. I think maybe you are getting your terms wrong? The PRD is Paizo's free online reference for the main Pathfinder RPG rules. If you want to publish something that uses, and is compatible with the Pathfinder RPG, you need to use the Pathfinder Compatibility License, which has been linked to above. It does not cost anything and is not overly restrictive.

Does that help?

I think I got the answer. I CANNOT print what I am thinking under the Pathfinder Compatibility license as it expressely forbids the creation of a new rules system, even if it is designed off the PRD.

However, under the OGL, which the PRD is under, it allows the game systems along with any ensuing adventures/modules to be published.

Since I know the game design is legal under the OGL, I'm looking to see how one would indicate it was organized using the PRD instead as there are differences between the original OGL which was for 3e/3.5 and the PRD which are both under the OGL.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

First off, see an Intellectual Property Lawyer. They will be able to tell you best what you can and cannot do.

For the record: I Am Not A Lawyer.

Dash Jones wrote:
I CANNOT print what I am thinking under the Pathfinder Compatibility license as it expressely forbids the creation of a new rules system, even if it is designed off the PRD.

Its been a while since I've read the comparability license so I'm a little rusty on parts that I avoid, but where does it say that? The Usage Restrictions says:

License wrote:

4. Usage Restrictions

The license granted hereunder is expressly limited to use of the Compatibility Logo in printed books, electronic books, and freely available websites. Anyone seeking a license for any other use should contact Paizo directly, at licensing@paizo.com.

You may not use the Compatibility Logo in a way that suggests Paizo owns, endorses, or is in any way responsible for any part of your product, or for any conduct of your business, or that suggests that you have any relationship beyond a mere license with us, unless we have a separate agreement that lets you do so. You also may not state or suggest that we guarantee your product's compatibility with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.

The titles of your products may not include any Paizo trademarked terms (or marks confusingly similar thereto), including "Pathfinder" or "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game."

You may not use Paizo's trade dress for your products or advertisements—that is, you may not design your products to look confusingly similar to Paizo's products.

You may not do anything illegal in or with products produced under this License.

You must use your best efforts to preserve the high standard of our trademarks. You may not use this License for products that the general public would classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors.

You may not release any compatible products until August 13, 2009 (the scheduled release date for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game).

Summarize:

You are limited to physical books, electronic books and free websites.

You cannot purposely make people thing Paizo endorses your product.

You cannot use Pathfinder trademarked terms in your titles.

You cannot use Paizo's trade dress.

Don't do anything illegal.

Avoid adult content, offensive material or anything inappropriate for minors.

And if you go back in time, don't publish anything before Aug 13, 2009.

I don't see anything in there about no new rules systems. Is there something I am missing?

Liberty's Edge

You keep using the PRD as your benchmark which is what is tripping you up. The PRD is simplt Paizo's official online repository for some, but not all, of their Pathfinder RPG open content. There is no such thing as 'compatible with the PRD'. If you want to do something that is just essentially D20 compatible, you publish under the OGL. If you want to use the Pathfinder rule set ( but not anything Golarian specific) then you must publish under the Pathfinder Compatibily License. You need to remove the notion that the PRD is some kind of legal license from your equation

Webstore Gninja Minion

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
I don't see anything in there about no new rules systems. Is there something I am missing?

Section 5, "Compatibility" (emphases mine):

Pathfinder Compatibility License wrote:

5. Compatibility

In order to make use of the compatible content, your product must operate under and rely on the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Standalone game systems are in no event authorized hereunder.

You agree to use your best efforts to ensure that the licensed products are fully compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game as published in August, 2009. Your products may additionally be compatible with other systems.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Liz Courts wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
I don't see anything in there about no new rules systems. Is there something I am missing?

Section 5, "Compatibility" (emphases mine):

Pathfinder Compatibility License wrote:

5. Compatibility

In order to make use of the compatible content, your product must operate under and rely on the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Standalone game systems are in no event authorized hereunder.

You agree to use your best efforts to ensure that the licensed products are fully compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game as published in August, 2009. Your products may additionally be compatible with other systems.

*Looks at Liz's post* Ah, I thought he was referring to a new rules subsystem. Like spell points or kingdom building or something. I wasn't thinking stand alone systems. My mistake.


Yeah. The problem with putting "OGL" on something is that while people can assume you mean d20- and/or Pathfinder-compatible it doesn't in actuality mean that. Any game system, even one built completely from scratch and unrelated to 3.5, can be published using the OGL license. I can go built a new RPG tomorrow that uses D6 rolls and three attributes, and attach the OGL license to it. Thus, it's an OGL product without being compatible in any way shape or form with d20. There are actually a few systems out there that do just that (Mongoose's Runequest variants, for example.)

"The 3.5 SRD" or "PFSRD" are a lot more accurate in terms of letting people know what system it was built with, but also rely on people knowing what those mean. The average poster on these boards likely does, but the average player is another matter. The licensing of course expressly forbids you from putting the trademarked words on there which the average buyer would understand, and for a good reason.

Personally, I believe you're better off selling something that works with and requires the Pathfinder core rulebook (and you can do that even if you don't use the core classes and completely replace them, or if you write your own combat chapter, as long as you require *something* from the core rulebook. For the d20 license it was the attribute rolls in character creation and the experience table, I think, while Pathfinder doesn't specify anything in particular), because you get a shiny Pathfinder logo that'll help sell more copies.

A standalone rulebook may seem more attractive in that people are more likely to buy it knowing they don't need anything else, but you also lose the exposure. I think enough people already have a Pathfinder rulebook that you'll not have to worry about limiting your audience by requiring it.

The licences, obviously, are built that way for precisely that purpose.

Looking back at a little recent RPG history, Mongoose used the d20 logo license to their advantage by first releasing products that required the D&D rulebook and had d20 logos on them, and later on moving to standalone OGL-only rulebooks once they'd used the exposure from their d20 products to become better known to customers. The first edition of the Babylon 5 RPG was d20, so required a D&D PHB. The second edition dropped the d20 license and provided a standalone system. A similar arrangement could work with the Pathfinder license.


Matt Thomason wrote:

Yeah. The problem with putting "OGL" on something is that while people can assume you mean d20- and/or Pathfinder-compatible it doesn't in actuality mean that. Any game system, even one built completely from scratch and unrelated to 3.5, can be published using the OGL license. I can go built a new RPG tomorrow that uses D6 rolls and three attributes, and attach the OGL license to it. Thus, it's an OGL product without being compatible in any way shape or form with d20. There are actually a few systems out there that do just that (Mongoose's Runequest variants, for example.)

"The 3.5 SRD" or "PFSRD" are a lot more accurate in terms of letting people know what system it was built with, but also rely on people knowing what those mean. The average poster on these boards likely does, but the average player is another matter. The licensing of course expressly forbids you from putting the trademarked words on there which the average buyer would understand, and for a good reason.

Personally, I believe you're better off selling something that works with and requires the Pathfinder core rulebook (and you can do that even if you don't use the core classes and completely replace them, or if you write your own combat chapter, as long as you require *something* from the core rulebook. For the d20 license it was the attribute rolls in character creation and the experience table, I think, while Pathfinder doesn't specify anything in particular), because you get a shiny Pathfinder logo that'll help sell more copies.

A standalone rulebook may seem more attractive in that people are more likely to buy it knowing they don't need anything else, but you also lose the exposure. I think enough people already have a Pathfinder rulebook that you'll not have to worry about limiting your audience by requiring it.

The licences, obviously, are built that way for precisely that purpose.

Looking back at a little recent RPG history, Mongoose used the d20 logo license to their advantage by first releasing products...

Thank you very much, that is extremely helpful, and thanks for the advice as well.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Product Discussion / PRD? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Product Discussion