Fire elemental burn vs multiple natural attacks


Rules Questions


A tiger pounces a huge fire elemental, hitting with all three natural attacks. The elemental has the burn special ability causing 2d6 fire damage to the tiger plus a reflex save DC18 for the tiger to avoid catching fire.

Is this 2d6 damage per natural attack, or just 2d6 per round regardless of the number of natural attacks made?

Does the tiger only make one reflex save, or three? If one, does the DC go up due to the multiple attacks? (such as +2 per additional attack)

Thanks.


Burn wrote:
(Ex) A creature with the burn special attack deals fire damage in addition to damage dealt on a successful hit in melee. Those affected by the burn ability must also succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire, taking the listed damage for an additional 1d4 rounds at the start of its turn (DC 10 + 1/2 burning creature's racial HD + burning creature's Con modifier). A burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action. Dropping and rolling on the ground grants a +4 bonus on this save. Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the burning creature and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire.

It's not entirely clear from the rules text but I have always thought it to be damage and reflex save for each successful attack i.e. if a tiger hits 3 times, it would take 2d6 damage three times and get 3 reflex saves. However the DC does not increase due to multiple attacks because it is not an affliction and does not indicate that it would anywhere.


"[Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks] -take- [fire damage as though hit by the burning creature...]"

It means that if you attack such a creature, and any attacks you use are unarmed attacks which would include not only natural weapons and unarmed strikes, but also standard melee touch attacks, simply take 2d6 damage once. Now, if it said that "[Each time a creature hits a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks]..." that would imply that they get tagged for each individual attack. But it doesn't, so it doesn't.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I disagree with Kazaan and I think it would be applied per successful hit. The description is not clear so it is subject to interpretation.

"Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the burning creature and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire."

It does not clearly state per attack, but I think that "that hit" wording is clear enough for me. However, it also does not clearly state per round so someone could argue that it is per encounter or whatever. So, the most common ruling that I have seen is per successful hit with a natural weapon or unarmed attack.


And if the elemental hits with its Attack of Opportunity because of its reach on the pouncing tiger, thereby dealing 2d6 fire burn damage, it would then do an additional 2d6 fire burn damage when the tiger attacks. But only once for the multiple attacks. Correct?

Edit: Or not based on above just posted.

Liberty's Edge

Kazaan wrote:

"[Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks] -take- [fire damage as though hit by the burning creature...]"

It means that if you attack such a creature, and any attacks you use are unarmed attacks which would include not only natural weapons and unarmed strikes, but also standard melee touch attacks, simply take 2d6 damage once. Now, if it said that "[Each time a creature hits a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks]..." that would imply that they get tagged for each individual attack. But it doesn't, so it doesn't.

Yeah, I disagree as well. With this logic, one could also argue that once damage is done for the first unarmed attack, no further damage is taken for the battle; or the rest of the character's life (which is taking the logic to the extreme).

It makes sense that each time an attack lands, the unarmed character takes fire damage as though hit by the burning creature...


Sardaukar wrote:

And if the elemental hits with its Attack of Opportunity because of its reach on the pouncing tiger, thereby dealing 2d6 fire burn damage, it would then do an additional 2d6 fire burn damage when the tiger attacks. But only once for the multiple attacks. Correct?

Edit: Or not based on above just posted.

Each hit gets its own additional 2d6 fire damage and each hit may cause the tiger to catch fire (reflex to ignore). Though once the tiger has caught fire it doesn't catch "more" on fire. It's either on fire or it isn't. The continual damage is done once a round and a "fresh" failed reflex save will reset the duration.


Thanks for all the input. I don't think this tiger is going to make it. :)

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