Here's the situation: The PCs capture Tsuto and rescues Ameiko. They take him to the garrison and use a scroll of charm person to interrogate him (all good). When they were discussing what to do with him afterward, the barbarian/priestess of Gorum wanted to execute him. Some of the party agreed. But they were told by Mayor Deverin that they take prisoners to Magnimar for trial so wouldn't authorize an execution. The barbarian priestess was having none of that and was able to gather a lynch mob (good diplomacy and using fear tactics and the threat of a goblin invasion tipped the scales in her favor). A crowd of thirty forced their way into the garrison and took Tsuto to the cliffs where they hanged him. This was an awesome RP moment-BUT-what should be the longer reaching consequences?
What would happen if this act forced the hand of Mayor Deverin and Sheriff Hemlock? Sure the PCs are "heroes" but what happens to the Adventure Path if for whatever reason they get either exiled or simply choose to leave because of possible negative reactions to decisions they make? And what about Ameiko's demeanor towards the PCs? Sure they saved her, and she would have understood if Tsuto was killed in battle; but this was a lynching that the PCs were directly responsible for. Whatever he did, Tsuto, is her brother after all. And since she is going to be heir of the Kaijitsu estate, she could make the PCs lives difficult. But will she?
And if the PCs have to leave town, then what?
1) the priestess looses favior with Gorum. Girum is about combat and death in battle. Had she given hin a trial by combat, that would have been OK. But a lynch mob loos bad.
What were the ither PCs doung?
They protested a little but pretty much just stood there with their mouths open. But the scene was too epic to out and out punish any of the PCs, I'm just trying to figure out when will they "go too far" and what could be the consequences to the AP as a whole if they are no longer welcome in Sandpoint. What would the town leadership do if they were constantly railroaded by the PCs? Wouldn't that make them look weak? No leader wants that. And ignoring the direct order of the Mayor and leading a lynch mob went pretty far in that direction.
So if you actually wanted to rock this you might consider using the Trust point mechanic from the Carrion Crown adventure in order to earn back the populaces favor. It would also give you a mechanical point (0 trust points) that the populace of sandpoint snaps and forces the Heros out with torches and pitchforks.
Points that might be made for negating this whole little dance though.
Ameiko got to hear and potentially watch her half brother kill her father by covering him in molten glass feet first. I'd say family love only goes so far, her father was an emotionally abusive jerkbag but no one deserves a death like that. As far as the more than likely shell-shocked and grieving Ameiko is concerned her brother got what he deserved for consorting with the powers of evil.
The Mayor and the Sheriff would also know that groups like this are dangerous to cross being that they just stopped a goblin invasion and revealed a threat they had not known of (Nualia, Wrath runewell)
I'd say they are just as likely to sweep it under the rug this time.Now if the party keeps usurping their control of Sandpoint then I might say that Judge Ironbriar and a dispatch of hellknights from Mangimar could come to town under the pretense of "Defending" the town while it is mostly in hopes of catching the PC's at such actions again and arresting them.
The criminal element of sandpoint might become interested and help the PC's finish what was started in the town, Nualia still needs killing and the runewell needs to be removed. S'bad fer business ya see.
If by some act the PC's are no longer welcome in sandpoint then the next book just changes locations a bit, Skinsaw starts with a murder close to where the PC's are. It just leads to the misgivings after that. Sandpoint no longer being a place the PC's like might change how the Stone giant plot later on unfolds but that would be rather far down the line.
The Hellknights idea sounds pretty cool.
I'm thinking that even though the Mayor and Sheriff might not directly act against them (yet) the situation will open their eyes to a possible confrontation in the future and might start preparing for it. Just in case.
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We had a group of Paladins of Iomedae (the humorless type) come and stay at Sandpoint for some time at the request of the local authorities (and backed with the Scarnetti's influence in Magnimar). Not sure if it was in the original story or something our GM designed to keep us on our toes.
It did give us some nice tension-filled encounters but we stayed polite and got out of their attention after some time filled with nice behaviour on our part.
Of course, since the next time we went back to sandpoint, we saved the city, we have been hailed as heroes ever since.
I think your player's RP is awesome and should not really be punished. I understand though that the powers that be might want some check against later acts of violence/sedition (like the paladin party mentioned above).
Note though that since she acted as the leader of a lynch mob, many people in Sandpoint actually look up to her and may react badly to open acts against her.
As far as Ameiko is concerned, another PC may try to keep the lines open with her. Otherwise, she will likely seek some way to harm the lynching PC but she may not have that much clout really (your choice as a GM).
Of course, a few years (months ?) later, she will be Empress of Minkai with far more political clout and might make life difficult for your PCs (say by sending the heroes who helped her get her throne back to Sandpoint with an assignment to get justice for her brother's murder).
Maybe keep it simple? Perhaps you could turn the Thistletop part of the adventure into a quest for redemption:
You gather in the Mayor's office. Mayor Deverin and Sheriff Hemlock look pensive. Shalelu the ranger is there too, her face impossible to read.
Mayor Deverin: "We are trying to come to terms with what you did. It's not pretty. Many of the townspeople are uncomfortable and don't want you around. I'm inclined to agree with them although I understand why you did it. Ameiko told me what he did and it was beyond horrific. And his plans for Sandpoint would have been devastating".
Belor Hemlock: "I have an idea. Perhaps they can earn the trust of Sandpoint back by clearing out the goblin force that Shalelu tells is is gathering in Thisletop?. Their trust, and ours".
Mayor Devin ponders the situation. "Well, that and a promise to stick by the rule of law here, and ok."
Of course you can draw it out to make it more tense. And if they show signs of not doing it, have the Mayor secretly admit she's very relieved he was caught and stopped, and that she understands, but that the rule of law has to be seen to be maintained.
Where does it say that Ameiko's dad was still alive when they covered him with molten glass? I believe he was killed prior to that. And I'm fairly certain that he'd have been coated in glass prior to Ameiko showing up, so she never heard or saw a thing; as far as she knew, her father was still alive and the PCs have to break it to her. (Small hint - don't let the curmudgeon do the breaking!)
Okay, first off. Only one PC was involved. The others didn't stop it... but it was a lynch mob of 30+ people. I don't blame them.
Second off... have Ameiko NOT extend her hospitality to them. In fact, have her say "I can't let you stay here any longer. Please take your stuff and leave." They have to find a new inn to stay at. The other inns may be hesitant on letting the Barbarian stay there seeing she riled up a lynch mob, so they may end up charging the entire group extra.
Third off. Have every business in Sandpoint start overcharging the PCs. They just lost any and all favor for having stopped the goblins. If they've not yet cleared out the catacombs under Sandpoint, that might alleviate some of the tensions but not necessarily.
And finally... when the Skinsaw Murders start, if the Barbarian is still alive? Have her be the one the Skinsaw Man fixated on... and have her arrested for murder because she's done stuff like this before. The PCs can try to clear her. Perhaps have the Barbarian player run one of the guards who goes with the PCs to try and find evidence. And run the ghoul attack... allowing the PCs drive off a swarm of ghouls attacking Sandpoint and in doing so they redeem themselves. (At which point many townsfolk may act quite contrite and apologetic on how they treated them... though most will probably still refuse to talk to the Barbarian.)
Maybe keep it simple? Perhaps you could turn the Thistletop part of the adventure into a quest for redemption:
You gather in the Mayor's office. Mayor Deverin and Sheriff Hemlock look pensive. Shalelu the ranger is there too, her face impossible to read.
Mayor Deverin: "We are trying to come to terms with what you did. It's not pretty. Many of the townspeople are uncomfortable and don't want you around. I'm inclined to agree with them although I understand why you did it. Ameiko told me what he did and it was beyond horrific. And his plans for Sandpoint would have been devastating".
Belor Hemlock: "I have an idea. Perhaps they can earn the trust of Sandpoint back by clearing out the goblin force that Shalelu tells is is gathering in Thisletop?. Their trust, and ours".
Mayor Devin ponders the situation. "Well, that and a promise to stick by the rule of law here, and ok."
Of course you can draw it out to make it more tense. And if they show signs of not doing it, have the Mayor secretly admit she's very relieved he was caught and stopped, and that she understands, but that the rule of law has to be seen to be maintained.
I'll probably do something close to this. Thanks.
Where does it say that Ameiko's dad was still alive when they covered him with molten glass? I believe he was killed prior to that. And I'm fairly certain that he'd have been coated in glass prior to Ameiko showing up, so she never heard or saw a thing; as far as she knew, her father was still alive and the PCs have to break it to her. (Small hint - don't let the curmudgeon do the breaking!)
Okay, first off. Only one PC was involved. The others didn't stop it... but it was a lynch mob of 30+ people. I don't blame them.
Second off... have Ameiko NOT extend her hospitality to them. In fact, have her say "I can't let you stay here any longer. Please take your stuff and leave." They have to find a new inn to stay at. The other inns may be hesitant on letting the Barbarian stay there seeing she riled up a lynch mob, so they may end up charging the entire group extra.
Third off. Have every business in Sandpoint start overcharging the PCs. They just lost any and all favor for having stopped the goblins. If they've not yet cleared out the catacombs under Sandpoint, that might alleviate some of the tensions but not necessarily.
And finally... when the Skinsaw Murders start, if the Barbarian is still alive? Have her be the one the Skinsaw Man fixated on... and have her arrested for murder because she's done stuff like this before. The PCs can try to clear her. Perhaps have the Barbarian player run one of the guards who goes with the PCs to try and find evidence. And run the ghoul attack... allowing the PCs drive off a swarm of ghouls attacking Sandpoint and in doing so they redeem themselves. (At which point many townsfolk may act quite contrite and apologetic on how they treated them... though most will probably still refuse to talk to the Barbarian.)
All of your point make 100% sense, but I have to be careful not to piss the PCs off so much that they simply leave. I will have Ameiko kick them out though. She doesn't play a direct part in the AP anyway and when she gets more authority she could be an unexpected enemy later on.
Just reading through this.
If the player was able to get a lynch mob together, the mob is just as guilty as the player. Kendra is the mayor by election and I think a mob of politically active people is not something that the mayor wants to get on the bad side of. I would think she might look past it given that it is likely that mob justice was on everyone's minds.
Basically the mob is citizens, the mayor represents the citizens and shouldn't be going against the grain. I'm not sure what her alignment was, but even lawful people can rise up and inflict justice.
At worst I think the mayor may resent the player for what they did, but scapegoating the hero for what the people did is likely to get her shunted out of office.
As GM, the question you face is, did the citizens go home post-mob and forget all about it, because justice was done and truth is painful, or do they now live a life of regret?
Or did some of them react one way, and others the other? There's a lot of RP potential for dealing with the citizens here.
My players killed Tsuto in combat without any witnesses. While the LG paladin may have had an issue with it, he's playing a "humourless" worshiper of Iomedae and believes in destroying evil whatever the cost.
I think the suggestions to focus on Thistletop as redemption, but keeping a level of suspicion around the party is a good one. I especially like focusing on the barbarian priestess in chapter 2. She's a great fit for that arm of the adventure and maybe some of the players will be willing to believe it too.
The community is going to be divided on this. The more lawful types will have a problem with lynching anyone without a fair trial and will see it as a black mark on their community. Mayor Deverin will be resentful but realizes she still needs the PCs so will try to spin the occurrence to her favor. Sheriff Hemlock wasn't present at the time (he's still in Magnimar) but will confront the PCs on the act and use the presumption that they are heroes (I'm going to play him like Nick Fury;) to make sure something like that doesn't happen again. Ameiko will thank the PCs for saving her but will become a cold fish. She will ask the PCs to leave her establishment though (I'll have the White Deer offer them rooms). And there will be several NPCs that supported the action and who thinks that the lynching has sent a strong message to anyone that plans misdeeds against Sandpoint.
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In my campaign things are not quite as bad. But I am using relationship rules and Prestige/Fame with regards to the town.
Mayor Deverin is a very diplomatic person, and would probably (in my mind) gather Sheriff Hemlock and have a sit-down with the PCs. (I would hold the entire group responsible, as long as they associate with each other.) Have her discuss the situation that they have placed her in. "Sandpoint is not some backwater border town where there is no law. It is this trust in the law that keeps the town thriving. Now, the fact that some of the townsfolk were involved shames me, but what hurts more is that despite the fact that I specifically asked you to let us handle it you decided that my word was not good enough."
I think getting that point across will help build a relationship with the leadership of the community while understanding that they need to build trust just as the community will try to help the heroes.
I prefer to reinforce good acts rather than punish evil ones. (Though I am big on consequences of one's actions too...)
To be honest, I cannot blame the PC, as a worshiper of a CN god, she did act as I would expect. Though I like the trial by battle, where perhaps she would have challenged him to combat, if he survived, then he would have earned his freedom. ;p
One lynching is likely to lead to another. So when the murders happen in Sandpoint, somebody is going to take the law into his own hands. Some innocent (perhaps a funny-looking foreigner, the village idiot, a known criminal type, a PC, a PC's friend, whatever) will get framed by another lynch mob. And it's then up to the PCs to stop them.
As written, Hemlock uses the PCs to investigate the murders. But if they're likely to start another lynching, that may not happen unless they do something like the above to get back into Hemlock's good books. Thistletop as redemption is fine, but as it's a matter of slaughtering goblins out of town rather than being peaceful in town, it won't persuade the more Lawful types that the PCs are really trustworthy.