Why is Superstition even available at level 2?

[willhob]

I might be misreading this class feature, but it seems pretty worthless early on.

1) You can no longer a willing target to spells (but can be willing target to supernatural abilities?) and therefore healers/buffers must make touch attacks on you

2) This does not stack with the normal +2 to Will saves from the Rage class feature.

So taking this at level 2 actually nerfs a Barbarian&s will saves?

[Rynjin]

1.) Only while raging. Get buffed BEFORE Raging. Tank while youre in it. Heal when you get out.

2.) They're both morale bonuses, yes, but one is a blanket "+X to all saves vs Y/Z effects" and the other is a specific "+2 to Will saves in general". They're morale bonuses to different things, so they should stack.

[Quandary]

1) It only forces the Saving Throw vs Spells, it doesn't change your status vs. the caster (ally/opponent) so shouldn't force a Touch Attack roll:

Quote:

You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

The "not being a willing target" doesn't change your status as ally/friend vs. opponent/enemy, and that's what the Touch Spell rule cares about... Perhaps that's worthy of a FAQ, but I don't really see justification for your reading, as the change in Saving Throws is explicitly mentioned while Touch Attacks are not. The ability also doesn't force you to treat an ally as an enemy and attack them if they cast a spell on you.

2) They are both Morale bonuses to your Will Save and thus don't stack, even if one ability also applies a Morale bonus to other Saves as well, and only applies to Will (and other) Saves vs. limited types of effects (Sp/Su): similar to if you had an Insight Bonus to AC (which also means Touch, CMD) vs. Goblins and an Insight Bonus to CMD, those would not stack for Goblins making CMB attacks against you.

It is not at all equivalent to how Rage's Morale bonus to CON has a knock-on effect on your Fort Save, but is fully compatable with Morale Bonuses to Fort Saves, because in that case there is not two Morale Bonuses actually applying to the same stat: 'stacking' is never invoked there. In this case, to the extent the abilities overlap at all, they ARE both Morale Bonuses applicable to the same stat (even if just for one momentary usage of that stat), and are thus barred from stacking.

But the normal Rage bonus also applies vs. non-Spell/Su Will Saves, and the Superstitious bonus also applies vs. Spells/Su that target Fort and Reflex.

3) So it actually has some use... But the game doesn't need to hold your hand, even if the game designers don't think something is a good option to take earlier, that isn't a reason to BAR you from taking that. And if you want to spend your higher level Rage Powers/Feats on other abilities with level/BAB/other pre-reqs, then picking this power up at this level could be desirable for some player.

[jlighter]

Quandary wrote:

1) It only forces the Saving Throw vs Spells, it doesn't change your status vs. the caster (ally/opponent) so shouldn't force a Touch Attack roll:

Quote:

You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

The "not being a willing target" doesn't change your status as ally/friend vs. opponent/enemy, and that's what the Touch Spell rule cares about... Perhaps that's worthy of a FAQ, but I don't really see justification for your reading, as the change in Saving Throws is explicitly mentioned while Touch Attacks are not.

I don't necessarily have a solid leg to stand on, but I don't necessarily agree with this interpretation. I would think that, given that one is unwilling to be the target of a spell, one will actively try to resist being struck by a spell, thus calling for the touch attack. Definitely a RAI, not strictly RAW, of course.

The problem lies in what does it mean to be an unwilling vs. willing recipient of a spell.

[Atarlost]

1) A group containing a second level barbarian can encounter a fifth level spellcaster as a boss encounter. Melee bosses are popular at low level, but they're not the only possibilities.

2) Superstition is a prerequisite. If you wish to take Spell Sunder at level 6 without taking the Extra Rage Power feat you must take Superstition at level 2 and Witch Hunter at level 4.

3) Players that multiclass early will be higher total level when they hit Barbarian 2 and more likely to face casters. A martial artist-barbarian is likely to lead with martial artist for easier style access and take 5 levels thereof, putting barbarian 2 potentially at level 7. Other multiclasses won't delay barbarian 2 as much, but a failed druid build is likely to put it at level 6 and a rogue dip is likely to put it at 4 if the rogue talent is considered higher priority.

4) At least one archetype (Urban) does not receive an overlapping will save bonus. If you're urban superstitious is all you get.